3 ms·

Yeah, this argues for the theory (which I think is correct) that A.I can't reach consciousness since there is a lot of non-symbolic thinking going on (this stud

Yeah, this argues for the theory (which I think is correct) that A.I can't reach consciousness since there is a lot of non-symbolic thinking going on (this study says approximately 25% percent). Does Chat GPT dream of electric sheep?

nico 3y ago
We will never know. That’s ineffable and subjective. We can only trust that it’s telling us the truth. Just like you can only trust someone else that they are telling you the truth about their own experience. Our language is essentially just and LLM hallucinating words to try to explain our non-symbolic experience. In other words, all experience is non-symbolic, but we are trying to symbolize it all the time. I subscribe to panpsychism, everything is conscious/ness. Consciousness is part of the fabric of reality/universe.
- ulizzle 3y ago
  If everything were consciousness, chat GTP would be a digital Ouija board. But we've already seen that the computer, like George Washington, can't tell a lie: you can ask the chatbot "how" it would take over the world, but it can't be duplicitous. Crazy times.
  - User23 3y ago
    It's just a matter of prompting. It's relatively easy to prompt ChatGPT to tell all kinds of "lies." I use the quotes because of course a token generating statistical model has no concept of truth or falsehood and is thus incapable of lying. It's literally a bullshit generator in the technical sense described in the charming little book On Bullshit[1]. [1] https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691122946/on-bullshit https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691122946/on...
- slibhb 3y ago
  > Just like you can only trust someone else that they are telling you the truth about their own experience. I don't trust them. I think they have inner experience because they're the same kind of thing I am and I have inner experience.
hackinthebochs 3y ago
>A.I can't reach consciousness since there is a lot of non-symbolic thinking going on There's no reason to think that an AI couldn't have non-symbolic modes of thought. Symbolic systems can be used to implement non-symbolic systems, which then have the constraints and limitations of the non-symbolic system. Neural nets are widely considered to be sub-symbolic systems. This was a core debate between the connectionists and those that argued symbolism was required for cognition and that neural nets were a dead end.
antonvs 3y ago
Most of the implementation of ChatGPT is not symbolic. It’s matrices of floating point numbers. This seems to undermine the premise of the theory you mention.
- ulizzle 3y ago
  Numbers are symbolic themselves, as is all math.
- loa_in_ 3y ago
  Logits are essential concept

nico 3y ago

We will never know. That’s ineffable and subjective. We can only trust that it’s telling us the truth. Just like you can only trust someone else that they are telling you the truth about their own experience. Our language is essentially just and LLM hallucinating words to try to explain our non-symbolic experience. In other words, all experience is non-symbolic, but we are trying to symbolize it all the time. I subscribe to panpsychism, everything is conscious/ness. Consciousness is part of the fabric of reality/universe.

ulizzle 3y ago
If everything were consciousness, chat GTP would be a digital Ouija board. But we've already seen that the computer, like George Washington, can't tell a lie: you can ask the chatbot "how" it would take over the world, but it can't be duplicitous. Crazy times.
- User23 3y ago
  It's just a matter of prompting. It's relatively easy to prompt ChatGPT to tell all kinds of "lies." I use the quotes because of course a token generating statistical model has no concept of truth or falsehood and is thus incapable of lying. It's literally a bullshit generator in the technical sense described in the charming little book On Bullshit[1]. [1] https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691122946/on-bullshit https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691122946/on...
slibhb 3y ago
> Just like you can only trust someone else that they are telling you the truth about their own experience. I don't trust them. I think they have inner experience because they're the same kind of thing I am and I have inner experience.

hackinthebochs 3y ago

>A.I can't reach consciousness since there is a lot of non-symbolic thinking going on There's no reason to think that an AI couldn't have non-symbolic modes of thought. Symbolic systems can be used to implement non-symbolic systems, which then have the constraints and limitations of the non-symbolic system. Neural nets are widely considered to be sub-symbolic systems. This was a core debate between the connectionists and those that argued symbolism was required for cognition and that neural nets were a dead end.

antonvs 3y ago

Most of the implementation of ChatGPT is not symbolic. It’s matrices of floating point numbers. This seems to undermine the premise of the theory you mention.

ulizzle 3y ago
Numbers are symbolic themselves, as is all math.
loa_in_ 3y ago
Logits are essential concept