5 ms·

Their job is not what you think it is. It's to maintain the status quo no matter how corrupt or abhorrent it is. The word enforcement says it all.

by Guthur 3y ago

nvy 3y ago
Of course that's their job. The police force is not designed to be a vehicle for social change nor for justice. The way the system is supposed to work is that engaged citizenry actively overhaul unjust laws and apparatuses, and the police then enforce those new laws. Unfortunately we have abysmally low civic engagement in most of the western world which leads to the mess we are currently in. I like to make fun of the French as much as anyone else but I really respect and admire the French people's propensity for protest and to stand up for what they believe. That's advanced citizenship in action.
- goldenkey 3y ago
  Advanced citizenship is about not needing revolutions, it is a sustainable governing process existing, one that integrates citizens in their daily lives. So far, I've seen shittier governments take out better ones, because they have more might. I don't think what is currently on Earth is by any means close to ideal because governments spend so much resource on worrying about other governments taking them out. I'll agree that the citizens of France feel empowered while Americans feel disempowered. And empowerment is a natural consequence of identification with control of larger structures. Most Americans don't feel like they have any control over larger structures in their countries.
  - astrange 3y ago
    > Most Americans don't feel like they have any control over larger structures in their countries. This is called "working the refs" or "talking their book". Americans' main interest in local government is blocking new housing project to pump their property values. So no matter what happens they just say there weren't enough meetings about it and the project needs to be cancelled because it didn't get community input. You don't have to believe them on larger political topics for the same reason you don't have to believe them here.
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    ->"I'll agree that the citizens of France feel empowered while Americans feel disempowered" Ironic considering the gun narrativr
- astrange 3y ago
  The French aren't protesting for good things, they all believe in 100 different conspiracy theories at the same time and are protesting that the government won't reveal Qanon is real. It's also completely ineffective, because the government can just ignore them when they get bored, and they don't actually get voted out or anything.
  - nvy 3y ago
    >The French aren't protesting for good things Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Democratic systems of government are messy, and that's okay. It's not for you or me to decide what's a "good" thing to protest.
    - astrange 3y ago
      What do protests have to do with democratic government? It's not part of the process, nobody has to listen to you.
      - MereInterest 3y ago
        So, your claim is that protests, whose purpose is change public opinion and to inform leaders of the public opinion, has no part in a democratic process, a system in which a government’s authority derives from public support? Am I understanding your claim correctly?
        astrange 3y ago
        Yes. There is no part of the official process where anyone is required to listen to or respect the opinion of a protest. That's kind of obvious. If you want a rep to know your opinion on something you can call them. The point of a protest is for when they're not listening to you, which is why they feature more in not-officially-democratic politics like dictatorships. But for that to work, it has to be so large they can't ignore you. (Otherwise, if they're small and still work through being annoying it's minority rule, which isn't democratic. But like I said that doesn't happen because you can just ignore them.) All politics depends on popular support because your subjects can either leave the country or have you killed if they really don't like you. Democratic politics means there's official channels for exercising this by voting instead of having to do this.
- csomar 3y ago
  > I like to make fun of the French as much as anyone else but I really respect and admire the French people's propensity for protest and to stand up for what they believe. That's advanced citizenship in action. You'll be disappointed then. The French are protesting for benefits and not for social change. Aka, they are not better than the police they are engaging with.
  - nvy 3y ago
    >You'll be disappointed then. The French are protesting for benefit What's wrong with that?

Their job is not what you think it is. It's to maintain the status quo no matter how corrupt or abhorrent it is. The word enforcement says it all.

by Guthur 3y ago

Their job is not what you think it is. It's to maintain the status quo no matter how corrupt or abhorrent it is. The word enforcement says it all.

nvy 3y ago

Of course that's their job. The police force is not designed to be a vehicle for social change nor for justice. The way the system is supposed to work is that engaged citizenry actively overhaul unjust laws and apparatuses, and the police then enforce those new laws. Unfortunately we have abysmally low civic engagement in most of the western world which leads to the mess we are currently in. I like to make fun of the French as much as anyone else but I really respect and admire the French people's propensity for protest and to stand up for what they believe. That's advanced citizenship in action.

goldenkey 3y ago
Advanced citizenship is about not needing revolutions, it is a sustainable governing process existing, one that integrates citizens in their daily lives. So far, I've seen shittier governments take out better ones, because they have more might. I don't think what is currently on Earth is by any means close to ideal because governments spend so much resource on worrying about other governments taking them out. I'll agree that the citizens of France feel empowered while Americans feel disempowered. And empowerment is a natural consequence of identification with control of larger structures. Most Americans don't feel like they have any control over larger structures in their countries.
- astrange 3y ago
  > Most Americans don't feel like they have any control over larger structures in their countries. This is called "working the refs" or "talking their book". Americans' main interest in local government is blocking new housing project to pump their property values. So no matter what happens they just say there weren't enough meetings about it and the project needs to be cancelled because it didn't get community input. You don't have to believe them on larger political topics for the same reason you don't have to believe them here.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  ->"I'll agree that the citizens of France feel empowered while Americans feel disempowered" Ironic considering the gun narrativr
astrange 3y ago
The French aren't protesting for good things, they all believe in 100 different conspiracy theories at the same time and are protesting that the government won't reveal Qanon is real. It's also completely ineffective, because the government can just ignore them when they get bored, and they don't actually get voted out or anything.
- nvy 3y ago
  >The French aren't protesting for good things Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Democratic systems of government are messy, and that's okay. It's not for you or me to decide what's a "good" thing to protest.
  - astrange 3y ago
    What do protests have to do with democratic government? It's not part of the process, nobody has to listen to you.
    - MereInterest 3y ago
      So, your claim is that protests, whose purpose is change public opinion and to inform leaders of the public opinion, has no part in a democratic process, a system in which a government’s authority derives from public support? Am I understanding your claim correctly?
      - astrange 3y ago
        Yes. There is no part of the official process where anyone is required to listen to or respect the opinion of a protest. That's kind of obvious. If you want a rep to know your opinion on something you can call them. The point of a protest is for when they're not listening to you, which is why they feature more in not-officially-democratic politics like dictatorships. But for that to work, it has to be so large they can't ignore you. (Otherwise, if they're small and still work through being annoying it's minority rule, which isn't democratic. But like I said that doesn't happen because you can just ignore them.) All politics depends on popular support because your subjects can either leave the country or have you killed if they really don't like you. Democratic politics means there's official channels for exercising this by voting instead of having to do this.
csomar 3y ago
> I like to make fun of the French as much as anyone else but I really respect and admire the French people's propensity for protest and to stand up for what they believe. That's advanced citizenship in action. You'll be disappointed then. The French are protesting for benefits and not for social change. Aka, they are not better than the police they are engaging with.
- nvy 3y ago
  >You'll be disappointed then. The French are protesting for benefit What's wrong with that?