4 ms·

Mobile VR won't work as nicely tho, it will be tether VR that stands a chance.

smoldesu 4y ago
I don't see why they both can't exist. Mobile VR already works great, and the power of mobile chipsets is only increasing. Tethered VR will only dominate for as long as mobile GPUs struggle to output stereo 2048x2048~ish video, which... isn't going to be for long. Combined with SOTA upscaling, we may already be there by some standards. I say all this as someone with a Quest who tethers to a PC for Beat Saber and Half Life Alyx. Tethered experiences rule - but untethered ones are really not that far off.
- gumballindie 4y ago
  > but untethered ones are really not that far off. I am not sure how you measure this but you can't run proper games on mobile vr. Mobile is limited, you can't fit in a GPU the same size of a desktop GPU. John Carmack has an interesting talk about what happens when mobile chips get too small and crowded. We simply can't battle physics. It would be awesome if we had the same experience tho.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Obviously the two will never coincide. Mobile GPUs will eventually reach a "good enough" stage though, and arguably we're already there. The quality of Quest-native games like Beat Saber is almost identical to the version on PC. Older games like Resident Evil 4 play just like normal. Visually it can be 'meh', but the tech is there and the option to stream from a more powerful desktop still exists. It uses comparatively weak chipsets to deliver pretty-damn-good visuals at a price point lower than most consoles. I would argue that your thesis of "you can't run proper games on mobile vr" is wrong. Today, you can go play DOOM 3 or Half Life in VR, untethered, on a sub-$500 headset. That should startle everyone working on tethered systems.
    - gumballindie 4y ago
      Interesting, I need to give it another go.
    - tomxor 4y ago
      1 sample: I only play quest2 untethered, don't have a gaming pc and don't want to spend time on that right now. Games are more than just graphics, and a lot of fun can be had without huge GPUs. The quest works well as a portable VR console if you focus on fun games rather than pretty games.
    - ekianjo 4y ago
      Problem is most people dont care about VR. The market is far from exploding and its not because of a lack of trying.
  - dharma1 4y ago
    AirLink Wi-Fi stream with Quest is great, not much different to tethered cable. I think there is a case for local ML becoming more popular too, I could see nvidia making a Shield like box at some point with a mobile 4000 series GPU and good thermals, that could bring those GPUs to mainstream beyond hardcore gamers. It would work for gaming, VR and consumer local ML apps (Siri that actually works and doesn’t leak data). Maybe some day the latency/bandwidth will be good enough to stream VR from edge servers so you don’t even need a local GPU. We’re not there yet, even for non-VR games I think we’ll see new classes of games/entertainment too where you’ll just describe the (VR) experience you want and ML constructs a game or (immersive) movie like experience of it. Maybe a different one every day. I can see Nvidia selling a lot more GPUs in the next decade as ML and real-time 3D becomes much more pervasive. At some point other much more power efficient architectures (our brain uses 12 watts) will trump general purpose GPUs
    - gumballindie 4y ago
      > , I could see nvidia making a Shield like box at some point with a mobile 4000 series GPU and good thermals, That is indeed how i see it working. A dedicated VR "console" of sorts that tethers via wifi.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      Personally, I never see something like this being made (or at least marketed as such). However, *pauses to put on tinfoil hat* Nvidia does sell devkits that roughly match the compute footprint you're describing[0]. They're ARM SOCs which puts them at a disadvantage for gaming, but the form factor does exist. If you need a lot of high-power AI compute and are willing to tinker with it, you can't beat CUDA on ARM. Again though - there's a reason these are sold as devkits and not products. Every YC-backed roach from here to Mississippi is going to spend their next half-decade trying to get your data/money for a machine learning product. Nvidia knows it's a losing game to sell hardware instead of services here, so they're arming the entrepreneurs instead of the consumer. Frankly, I think it's the right move anyways. People are going to need scaling compute for decently fast AI inferencing in the future, and Nvidia can keep that scaling curve under their thumb. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if there are Nvidia execs suggesting that they abandon the gaming market altogether just to focus on more lucrative AI/datacenter customers. [0] https://store.nvidia.com/en-us/jetson/store/?page=1&limit=9&locale=en-us https://store.nvidia.com/en-us/jetson/store/?page=1&limit=9&...

I don't see why they both can't exist. Mobile VR already works great, and the power of mobile chipsets is only increasing. Tethered VR will only dominate for as long as mobile GPUs struggle to output stereo 2048x2048~ish video, which... isn't going to be for long. Combined with SOTA upscaling, we may already be there by some standards. I say all this as someone with a Quest who tethers to a PC for Beat Saber and Half Life Alyx. Tethered experiences rule - but untethered ones are really not that far off.

gumballindie 4y ago
> but untethered ones are really not that far off. I am not sure how you measure this but you can't run proper games on mobile vr. Mobile is limited, you can't fit in a GPU the same size of a desktop GPU. John Carmack has an interesting talk about what happens when mobile chips get too small and crowded. We simply can't battle physics. It would be awesome if we had the same experience tho.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Obviously the two will never coincide. Mobile GPUs will eventually reach a "good enough" stage though, and arguably we're already there. The quality of Quest-native games like Beat Saber is almost identical to the version on PC. Older games like Resident Evil 4 play just like normal. Visually it can be 'meh', but the tech is there and the option to stream from a more powerful desktop still exists. It uses comparatively weak chipsets to deliver pretty-damn-good visuals at a price point lower than most consoles. I would argue that your thesis of "you can't run proper games on mobile vr" is wrong. Today, you can go play DOOM 3 or Half Life in VR, untethered, on a sub-$500 headset. That should startle everyone working on tethered systems.
  - gumballindie 4y ago
    Interesting, I need to give it another go.
  - tomxor 4y ago
    1 sample: I only play quest2 untethered, don't have a gaming pc and don't want to spend time on that right now. Games are more than just graphics, and a lot of fun can be had without huge GPUs. The quest works well as a portable VR console if you focus on fun games rather than pretty games.
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    Problem is most people dont care about VR. The market is far from exploding and its not because of a lack of trying.
- dharma1 4y ago
  AirLink Wi-Fi stream with Quest is great, not much different to tethered cable. I think there is a case for local ML becoming more popular too, I could see nvidia making a Shield like box at some point with a mobile 4000 series GPU and good thermals, that could bring those GPUs to mainstream beyond hardcore gamers. It would work for gaming, VR and consumer local ML apps (Siri that actually works and doesn’t leak data). Maybe some day the latency/bandwidth will be good enough to stream VR from edge servers so you don’t even need a local GPU. We’re not there yet, even for non-VR games I think we’ll see new classes of games/entertainment too where you’ll just describe the (VR) experience you want and ML constructs a game or (immersive) movie like experience of it. Maybe a different one every day. I can see Nvidia selling a lot more GPUs in the next decade as ML and real-time 3D becomes much more pervasive. At some point other much more power efficient architectures (our brain uses 12 watts) will trump general purpose GPUs
  - gumballindie 4y ago
    > , I could see nvidia making a Shield like box at some point with a mobile 4000 series GPU and good thermals, That is indeed how i see it working. A dedicated VR "console" of sorts that tethers via wifi.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Personally, I never see something like this being made (or at least marketed as such). However, *pauses to put on tinfoil hat* Nvidia does sell devkits that roughly match the compute footprint you're describing[0]. They're ARM SOCs which puts them at a disadvantage for gaming, but the form factor does exist. If you need a lot of high-power AI compute and are willing to tinker with it, you can't beat CUDA on ARM. Again though - there's a reason these are sold as devkits and not products. Every YC-backed roach from here to Mississippi is going to spend their next half-decade trying to get your data/money for a machine learning product. Nvidia knows it's a losing game to sell hardware instead of services here, so they're arming the entrepreneurs instead of the consumer. Frankly, I think it's the right move anyways. People are going to need scaling compute for decently fast AI inferencing in the future, and Nvidia can keep that scaling curve under their thumb. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if there are Nvidia execs suggesting that they abandon the gaming market altogether just to focus on more lucrative AI/datacenter customers. [0] https://store.nvidia.com/en-us/jetson/store/?page=1&limit=9&locale=en-us https://store.nvidia.com/en-us/jetson/store/?page=1&limit=9&...