7 ms·

The argument doesn't matter because the federal government and politicians don't give a shit about facts

by voidfunc 3y ago

hilbert42 3y ago
Until their PCs get hacked and their medical and psychiatrists' notes about them become front page news.
- TheRealPomax 3y ago
  Sorry, what? This literally happened, THIS YEAR, and not a single one cared beyond saying "oh no, this is terrible, if only there was something we could have done!" https://apnews.com/article/congress-data-breach-hack-identity-theft-e4355e9e6756b1487c34c7accd0eb58e https://apnews.com/article/congress-data-breach-hack-identit...
  - LadyCailin 3y ago
    Alternatively: Stuff is going to be leaked anyways, so we might as well also make it easy for law enforcement to do their job.
    - Guthur 3y ago
      Their job is not what you think it is. It's to maintain the status quo no matter how corrupt or abhorrent it is. The word enforcement says it all.
      - nvy 3y ago
        Of course that's their job. The police force is not designed to be a vehicle for social change nor for justice. The way the system is supposed to work is that engaged citizenry actively overhaul unjust laws and apparatuses, and the police then enforce those new laws. Unfortunately we have abysmally low civic engagement in most of the western world which leads to the mess we are currently in. I like to make fun of the French as much as anyone else but I really respect and admire the French people's propensity for protest and to stand up for what they believe. That's advanced citizenship in action.
        goldenkey 3y ago
        Advanced citizenship is about not needing revolutions, it is a sustainable governing process existing, one that integrates citizens in their daily lives. So far, I've seen shittier governments take out better ones, because they have more might. I don't think what is currently on Earth is by any means close to ideal because governments spend so much resource on worrying about other governments taking them out. I'll agree that the citizens of France feel empowered while Americans feel disempowered. And empowerment is a natural consequence of identification with control of larger structures. Most Americans don't feel like they have any control over larger structures in their countries.
        astrange 3y ago
        > Most Americans don't feel like they have any control over larger structures in their countries. This is called "working the refs" or "talking their book". Americans' main interest in local government is blocking new housing project to pump their property values. So no matter what happens they just say there weren't enough meetings about it and the project needs to be cancelled because it didn't get community input. You don't have to believe them on larger political topics for the same reason you don't have to believe them here.
        ClumsyPilot 3y ago
        ->"I'll agree that the citizens of France feel empowered while Americans feel disempowered" Ironic considering the gun narrativr
        astrange 3y ago
        The French aren't protesting for good things, they all believe in 100 different conspiracy theories at the same time and are protesting that the government won't reveal Qanon is real. It's also completely ineffective, because the government can just ignore them when they get bored, and they don't actually get voted out or anything.
        nvy 3y ago
        >The French aren't protesting for good things Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Democratic systems of government are messy, and that's okay. It's not for you or me to decide what's a "good" thing to protest.
    - LadyCailin 3y ago
      I was unclear in my original post, and now can’t edit it. I do not support this stance, I’m saying that this is what they might argue, given the incident the OP posted.
  - hilbert42 3y ago
    Right. There'll be more, eventually something truly salacious will turn up. When it does keep well away from fans.
    - joering2 3y ago
      If "something truly salacious will turn up", I would bet the source politician will deny it and would want the whole thing to be forgotten as quickly as possible, not to work on a bill against it to pass it bipartisan, because he was an embarrassment case of a leak. Source: observing last 25 years of US politics.
    - thatguy0900 3y ago
      If they wait a few years they can just say it's fake news created by rogue unlicensed language models
    - lenkite 3y ago
      Any leaked, salacious stuff will just be termed as Russian disinformation.
      - wsc981 3y ago
        It worked several times before (Clinton email server, Hunter Biden laptop, various examples from other countries) so no reason why this argument would not work again.
        Entinel 3y ago
        It worked against Democrats because the Republican base does not care about facts and just need a reason, fact or fiction, to justify the outrage they are told to feel.
        ta8645 3y ago
        Ironic that you would confuse your emotionally felt bias, for a fact. There are many good and decent people, who are firmly rooted in reality and facts, that count themselves as part of the Republican base. We need to return to political argument, rather than vilification.
  - ciabattabread 3y ago
    I thought you were referring to Australia’s hack. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/11/medical-data-hacked-from-10m-australians-begins-to-appear-on-dark-web https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/11/medical-data-h...
- bee_rider 3y ago
  The generation currently in charge thinks psychology is a dirty word. And even if they would do us all a favor and get some help, they probably wouldn’t use an app to get it. By the time millennials and gen z are running the place, we’ll have moved on to misunderstanding AI or something like that.
- bb88 3y ago
  Remember when the CIA hacked the Senate? No? https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/01/world/senate-intelligence-commitee-cia-interrogation-report.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/01/world/senate-intelligence... I'm pretty sure a lot of lawmakers still take this shit seriously.
  - Spooky23 3y ago
    Maybe some of them, in committee roles. The weak link is the campaigns.
    - __d 3y ago
      The weak link is the voters. We continue to elect charismatic fools (and sometimes charismatic criminals) because we're charmed, or scared, or bewildered, or just too damned tired to care. Until that stops, there's really no justification for expecting anything rational to come from our leadership.
      - fuzzfactor 3y ago
        Not all that charismatic, more like empty social climbers. Especially the unethical and downright criminals, who put all their effort into putting on a fake legitimate facade.
actionfromafar 3y ago
Nor do most voters, so it all balances out.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

The argument doesn't matter because the federal government and politicians don't give a shit about facts

hilbert42 3y ago

Until their PCs get hacked and their medical and psychiatrists' notes about them become front page news.

TheRealPomax 3y ago
Sorry, what? This literally happened, THIS YEAR, and not a single one cared beyond saying "oh no, this is terrible, if only there was something we could have done!" https://apnews.com/article/congress-data-breach-hack-identity-theft-e4355e9e6756b1487c34c7accd0eb58e https://apnews.com/article/congress-data-breach-hack-identit...
- LadyCailin 3y ago
  Alternatively: Stuff is going to be leaked anyways, so we might as well also make it easy for law enforcement to do their job.
  - Guthur 3y ago
    Their job is not what you think it is. It's to maintain the status quo no matter how corrupt or abhorrent it is. The word enforcement says it all.
    - nvy 3y ago
      Of course that's their job. The police force is not designed to be a vehicle for social change nor for justice. The way the system is supposed to work is that engaged citizenry actively overhaul unjust laws and apparatuses, and the police then enforce those new laws. Unfortunately we have abysmally low civic engagement in most of the western world which leads to the mess we are currently in. I like to make fun of the French as much as anyone else but I really respect and admire the French people's propensity for protest and to stand up for what they believe. That's advanced citizenship in action.
      - goldenkey 3y ago
        Advanced citizenship is about not needing revolutions, it is a sustainable governing process existing, one that integrates citizens in their daily lives. So far, I've seen shittier governments take out better ones, because they have more might. I don't think what is currently on Earth is by any means close to ideal because governments spend so much resource on worrying about other governments taking them out. I'll agree that the citizens of France feel empowered while Americans feel disempowered. And empowerment is a natural consequence of identification with control of larger structures. Most Americans don't feel like they have any control over larger structures in their countries.
        astrange 3y ago
        > Most Americans don't feel like they have any control over larger structures in their countries. This is called "working the refs" or "talking their book". Americans' main interest in local government is blocking new housing project to pump their property values. So no matter what happens they just say there weren't enough meetings about it and the project needs to be cancelled because it didn't get community input. You don't have to believe them on larger political topics for the same reason you don't have to believe them here.
        ClumsyPilot 3y ago
        ->"I'll agree that the citizens of France feel empowered while Americans feel disempowered" Ironic considering the gun narrativr
      - astrange 3y ago
        The French aren't protesting for good things, they all believe in 100 different conspiracy theories at the same time and are protesting that the government won't reveal Qanon is real. It's also completely ineffective, because the government can just ignore them when they get bored, and they don't actually get voted out or anything.
        nvy 3y ago
        >The French aren't protesting for good things Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Democratic systems of government are messy, and that's okay. It's not for you or me to decide what's a "good" thing to protest.
  - LadyCailin 3y ago
    I was unclear in my original post, and now can’t edit it. I do not support this stance, I’m saying that this is what they might argue, given the incident the OP posted.
- hilbert42 3y ago
  Right. There'll be more, eventually something truly salacious will turn up. When it does keep well away from fans.
  - joering2 3y ago
    If "something truly salacious will turn up", I would bet the source politician will deny it and would want the whole thing to be forgotten as quickly as possible, not to work on a bill against it to pass it bipartisan, because he was an embarrassment case of a leak. Source: observing last 25 years of US politics.
  - thatguy0900 3y ago
    If they wait a few years they can just say it's fake news created by rogue unlicensed language models
  - lenkite 3y ago
    Any leaked, salacious stuff will just be termed as Russian disinformation.
    - wsc981 3y ago
      It worked several times before (Clinton email server, Hunter Biden laptop, various examples from other countries) so no reason why this argument would not work again.
      - Entinel 3y ago
        It worked against Democrats because the Republican base does not care about facts and just need a reason, fact or fiction, to justify the outrage they are told to feel.
        ta8645 3y ago
        Ironic that you would confuse your emotionally felt bias, for a fact. There are many good and decent people, who are firmly rooted in reality and facts, that count themselves as part of the Republican base. We need to return to political argument, rather than vilification.
- ciabattabread 3y ago
  I thought you were referring to Australia’s hack. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/11/medical-data-hacked-from-10m-australians-begins-to-appear-on-dark-web https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/11/medical-data-h...
bee_rider 3y ago
The generation currently in charge thinks psychology is a dirty word. And even if they would do us all a favor and get some help, they probably wouldn’t use an app to get it. By the time millennials and gen z are running the place, we’ll have moved on to misunderstanding AI or something like that.
bb88 3y ago
Remember when the CIA hacked the Senate? No? https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/01/world/senate-intelligence-commitee-cia-interrogation-report.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/01/world/senate-intelligence... I'm pretty sure a lot of lawmakers still take this shit seriously.
- Spooky23 3y ago
  Maybe some of them, in committee roles. The weak link is the campaigns.
  - __d 3y ago
    The weak link is the voters. We continue to elect charismatic fools (and sometimes charismatic criminals) because we're charmed, or scared, or bewildered, or just too damned tired to care. Until that stops, there's really no justification for expecting anything rational to come from our leadership.
    - fuzzfactor 3y ago
      Not all that charismatic, more like empty social climbers. Especially the unethical and downright criminals, who put all their effort into putting on a fake legitimate facade.

actionfromafar 3y ago

Nor do most voters, so it all balances out.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]