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Given that gov.uk is already so surveillance happy, I’m surprised they haven’t just mandated ID cards and then required SIMs to be linked to one of those or a p

Given that gov.uk is already so surveillance happy, I’m surprised they haven’t just mandated ID cards and then required SIMs to be linked to one of those or a passport

bombcar 4y ago
Or just mandate warmup periods like we do with spam from IPs.
wkat4242 4y ago
Yeah I'm surprised a surveillance country like the UK didn't do this yet. Here in Spain they do.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  I see lots of griping in thread, but it seems business as usual in the countries where registration is required. https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/sim-card-registration-laws/ https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/sim-card-regist... > The majority of national governments (around 160) require mandatory SIM-card registration, which means you need your real name and personal details to sign up for phone service. And just under 20 of these also require biometrics, e.g. your fingerprints or a facial scan, with eight more countries in the process of implementing such requirements. The biometrics part is unnerving to be sure, but anonymous SIMs or DIDs are incompatible with fraud and spam fighting efforts. If you terminate bad actors, they’ll just keep spinning up more resources.
  - costco 4y ago
    The interesting thing is despite the rules governments in countries like India or Ghana with strict registration laws will routinely find 3000 SIM cards on raids on simbox operators.
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      Who are these SIMs being registered to in these operations?
      - costco 4y ago
        Destitute people or a carrier employee is bribed to activate the SIM cards without registration. https://commsrisk.com/telco-corruption-fuels-simbox-frauds/ https://commsrisk.com/telco-corruption-fuels-simbox-frauds/
  - grantla 4y ago
    From experience in other EU countries, registering SIM-card registration helps exactly nothing. The biometrics also won't help.
    - wkat4242 4y ago
      Of course it doesn't. Especially with the low roaming costs inside Europe. Just grab one in another country and use that. It's purely theater. This is why it's so annoying. My current provider Orange even requires me to re-ID at their shop periodically now :(
- dazc 4y ago
  Stolen ID in Spain is rampant, it may be just a coincidence though?
  - wkat4242 4y ago
    IDs are stolen yes but they are generally discarded. They're just a side catch for pickpockets and the moment they steal the wallet they will take the money and dump the IDs in a nearby bin. I was pickpocketed a few years ago and I searched all the bins in the area and I came up with ID cards, medical cards, bank cards etc of 9 different people that had been robbed that night! I think the thieves do this because if you point them out to the police they won't have any evidence on their possession. Because if they have someone's ID on them they will have some explaining to do. For some cash not so much, you can't prove it was yours. Not that the police do anything anyway because the Spanish law lets them go free with a minor fine if they stole less than 400 euro, even if it was the 50th time this month. This is really why pickpocketing is so extremely rampant here, it's risk-free and the gangs are basically professional businesses.
    - dazc 4y ago
      Thanks for the insight. I was robbed in Spain and the only thing of real value they got was my passport. Since you need ID to buy a sim card I just assumed there would be a huge market for stolen identity documents.
justincormack 4y ago
Various governments tried at various times. There is historic resistance as ID cards were originally a wartime measure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Registration_Act_1939 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Registration_Act_1939 and considered to be a symbol of war and so lack of freedom. You don't have to carry a driving license while driving, just present it later if asked. The latest elections required ID to vote and there is a lot of opposition to that, as it has never been a requirement.
jon-wood 4y ago
For reasons I’ve never really understood the UK (or at least the UK parliament) is wildly opposed to ID cards. There’s been a few attempts to introduce them which got massive pushback and were eventually aborted. Personally I think it would be quite a bit easier than the current mish-mash of identification documents for different purposes, everyone in practice carries some form of ID if only so they can show it when buying age restricted products on the odd occasion someone asks for verification.

Given that gov.uk is already so surveillance happy, I’m surprised they haven’t just mandated ID cards and then required SIMs to be linked to one of those or a passport

bombcar 4y ago

Or just mandate warmup periods like we do with spam from IPs.

wkat4242 4y ago

Yeah I'm surprised a surveillance country like the UK didn't do this yet. Here in Spain they do.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
I see lots of griping in thread, but it seems business as usual in the countries where registration is required. https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/sim-card-registration-laws/ https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/sim-card-regist... > The majority of national governments (around 160) require mandatory SIM-card registration, which means you need your real name and personal details to sign up for phone service. And just under 20 of these also require biometrics, e.g. your fingerprints or a facial scan, with eight more countries in the process of implementing such requirements. The biometrics part is unnerving to be sure, but anonymous SIMs or DIDs are incompatible with fraud and spam fighting efforts. If you terminate bad actors, they’ll just keep spinning up more resources.
- costco 4y ago
  The interesting thing is despite the rules governments in countries like India or Ghana with strict registration laws will routinely find 3000 SIM cards on raids on simbox operators.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Who are these SIMs being registered to in these operations?
    - costco 4y ago
      Destitute people or a carrier employee is bribed to activate the SIM cards without registration. https://commsrisk.com/telco-corruption-fuels-simbox-frauds/ https://commsrisk.com/telco-corruption-fuels-simbox-frauds/
- grantla 4y ago
  From experience in other EU countries, registering SIM-card registration helps exactly nothing. The biometrics also won't help.
  - wkat4242 4y ago
    Of course it doesn't. Especially with the low roaming costs inside Europe. Just grab one in another country and use that. It's purely theater. This is why it's so annoying. My current provider Orange even requires me to re-ID at their shop periodically now :(
dazc 4y ago
Stolen ID in Spain is rampant, it may be just a coincidence though?
- wkat4242 4y ago
  IDs are stolen yes but they are generally discarded. They're just a side catch for pickpockets and the moment they steal the wallet they will take the money and dump the IDs in a nearby bin. I was pickpocketed a few years ago and I searched all the bins in the area and I came up with ID cards, medical cards, bank cards etc of 9 different people that had been robbed that night! I think the thieves do this because if you point them out to the police they won't have any evidence on their possession. Because if they have someone's ID on them they will have some explaining to do. For some cash not so much, you can't prove it was yours. Not that the police do anything anyway because the Spanish law lets them go free with a minor fine if they stole less than 400 euro, even if it was the 50th time this month. This is really why pickpocketing is so extremely rampant here, it's risk-free and the gangs are basically professional businesses.
  - dazc 4y ago
    Thanks for the insight. I was robbed in Spain and the only thing of real value they got was my passport. Since you need ID to buy a sim card I just assumed there would be a huge market for stolen identity documents.

justincormack 4y ago

Various governments tried at various times. There is historic resistance as ID cards were originally a wartime measure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Registration_Act_1939 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Registration_Act_1939 and considered to be a symbol of war and so lack of freedom. You don't have to carry a driving license while driving, just present it later if asked. The latest elections required ID to vote and there is a lot of opposition to that, as it has never been a requirement.

jon-wood 4y ago

For reasons I’ve never really understood the UK (or at least the UK parliament) is wildly opposed to ID cards. There’s been a few attempts to introduce them which got massive pushback and were eventually aborted. Personally I think it would be quite a bit easier than the current mish-mash of identification documents for different purposes, everyone in practice carries some form of ID if only so they can show it when buying age restricted products on the odd occasion someone asks for verification.