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The Suburbs are great, and what does it mean if the cities are only sustained by forcing individuals/parents to come into them 5 times a week for their liveliho

The Suburbs are great, and what does it mean if the cities are only sustained by forcing individuals/parents to come into them 5 times a week for their livelihoods? Why aren't workers eager to live in densely packed urban environments if presented this alternative, that has been traditionally disparaged by so many?

chasd00 4y ago
I live in dfw, about 3miles SW of downtown Dallas so not a suburb. I have to admit, suburbs have a lot to offer. The northern dfw suburbs are more walkable than downtown Dallas for your daily needs. It’s not hard to find an apartment or house in Plano, Frisco, McKinney or other northern suburbs with direct access to a network of biking trails and walking paths to get to the day to day places you need to go. Maybe I’m just old but they’re quite nice places to live. I would consider moving except for some family things that keep me in oakcliff.
- digdugdirk 4y ago
  I would advise against using cities in Texas as your baseline of comparison when people mention "cities". Texas grew up well after the automobile was a thing, and didn't have the same external pressures that pushed urban growth towards density around specific areas (harbours, rivers, etc.). Also, the sprawl and government structure is such that "suburbs" are both larger, and better able to plan/direct and fund their own growth. (And yes, these incentives also further promote the idea of growth/expansion vs density and reinvestment into an existing geographic core) Texas truly is its own thing.
- usefulcat 4y ago
  I’ve lived in the suburbs of Dallas (far north Dallas, to be more precise). Walkable is not a word I would have used to describe it. Even ‘nearby’ things are far by walking standards. For example, there was a grocery store literally down the street from my first apartment, but it was still about a twenty minute walk each way, and the next closest store was a lot farther. One thing I do recall is being astonished at just how far you could drive and still be in the suburbs.
TomK32 4y ago
It's the other way around, the denser inner cities subsidize the sprawling suburbs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI
- briHass 4y ago
  This depends heavily on the city metro being considered and the definition of 'suburb'. For example, in the Philadelphia metro, this is definitely not the case. The counties surrounding the city are far wealthier than the city county, and many area businesses are located in those surrounding suburban counties, with only small offices in the city. The suburban schools, for example, are funded almost entirely by local taxes, while the city schools get a large chunk of their funding from the state (which of course is tax money in large part from the rich counties.). Even things like the area transportation network (SEPTA) derive a significant portion of their revenue from the suburban to city train lines (because the fares are much more expensive than intracity routes) I find this typical argument relies on counting 'suburbs' as the poorer and less dense exurb/rural communities that are an hour+ outside the city. For the census purposes, they are considered part of the metro, but nobody would consider them what is typically considered a 'suburban area'
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    The source of the surburban wealth is the city. Proximity to the urban core is the resource used to acquire that money. Those people work high paid jobs or own businesses in the city, then pay their local taxes to the surburb where they live. So the surburbs have better schools etc because of money extracted from the city. > many area businesses are located in those surrounding suburban counties, with only small offices in the city I understand why you'd have this impression and in some very exceptional cases it can be true. But look at the gross product of the different counties in your area, not personal income. I doubt this assessment holds up.
    - vaidhy 4y ago
      I have no idea why this is getting downvoted. Make a case, if you disagree.
dahart 4y ago
Isn’t cost perhaps the main factor? There are many factors for many people, of course, but it seems like usually living near the downtown center is much more expensive than living in the suburbs, at least in terms of price per square foot. If prices are higher in urban areas, that suggests there’s evidence people actually are eager to live downtown, but suburbs are also very popular where I live as a way to have more space for the same price, or a lower overall price; you can get a newer larger house with a larger yard for less money in the suburbs compared to downtown, but the catch is you have to drive everywhere even on the weekends.
- foogazi 4y ago
  > you can get a newer larger house with a larger yard for less money in the suburbs compared to downtown, but the catch is you have to drive everywhere even on the weekends. That catch is the reason that it is cheaper - it’s built in to the price All of those parameters are combined into desirability. Everyone has different needs (at different times) Kids ? Suburbs: Larger house and schools Young adults ? density and night life Young adults having kids ? Suburbs
  - ninthcat 4y ago
    Kids need a large house? Not places to play outside with their friends? What is a kid going to do in the suburbs that doesn't rely on being ferried around in a car for hours each day?
    - HeyImAlex 4y ago
      I grew up in the suburbs and walked out my front door to play with my friends. There were probably 15 kids around my age within 100 yards of my house, 50 in my neighborhood.
    - bluefirebrand 4y ago
      Kids need bedrooms, more kids need more bedrooms. Especially as they grow older, teenagers probably should have their own bedrooms. Urban living doesn't often give much space for kids. Also have you ever been in a suburb? They usually have parks and playgrounds everywhere. Especially at the school that the kids attend, which is likely easy to walk or bike to for the kid. Some suburbs have community centers. Some suburbs in Calgary have private lakes with parks and playgrounds that kids can go to whenever they want. They can go skating on the frozen lake in winter, swimming in summer, in walking distance to home and without their parents. Also in the suburbs houses have yards, which are even better than parks and playgrounds in some ways. My friends and I dug up a huge trench network in his parents yard one year. His parents were chill about it, we were allowed to go out with shovels and pickaxes and dig as much as we wanted really. Why not? They weren't using the yard for anything else and we had fun with it
CalRobert 4y ago
I would love to live in a dense urban environment, but the suburbs are cheap. Though in my case I live in a rural area, not suburban, because it's even cheaper. But we're working on a move to a dense urban low-car environment (Utrecht) because it's painfully lonely out here.
- Ericson2314 4y ago
  Moving to Netherlands?
  - CalRobert 4y ago
    That's the plan.
    - Ericson2314 3y ago
      Good luck!

chasd00 4y ago

I live in dfw, about 3miles SW of downtown Dallas so not a suburb. I have to admit, suburbs have a lot to offer. The northern dfw suburbs are more walkable than downtown Dallas for your daily needs. It’s not hard to find an apartment or house in Plano, Frisco, McKinney or other northern suburbs with direct access to a network of biking trails and walking paths to get to the day to day places you need to go. Maybe I’m just old but they’re quite nice places to live. I would consider moving except for some family things that keep me in oakcliff.

digdugdirk 4y ago
I would advise against using cities in Texas as your baseline of comparison when people mention "cities". Texas grew up well after the automobile was a thing, and didn't have the same external pressures that pushed urban growth towards density around specific areas (harbours, rivers, etc.). Also, the sprawl and government structure is such that "suburbs" are both larger, and better able to plan/direct and fund their own growth. (And yes, these incentives also further promote the idea of growth/expansion vs density and reinvestment into an existing geographic core) Texas truly is its own thing.
usefulcat 4y ago
I’ve lived in the suburbs of Dallas (far north Dallas, to be more precise). Walkable is not a word I would have used to describe it. Even ‘nearby’ things are far by walking standards. For example, there was a grocery store literally down the street from my first apartment, but it was still about a twenty minute walk each way, and the next closest store was a lot farther. One thing I do recall is being astonished at just how far you could drive and still be in the suburbs.

TomK32 4y ago

It's the other way around, the denser inner cities subsidize the sprawling suburbs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI

briHass 4y ago
This depends heavily on the city metro being considered and the definition of 'suburb'. For example, in the Philadelphia metro, this is definitely not the case. The counties surrounding the city are far wealthier than the city county, and many area businesses are located in those surrounding suburban counties, with only small offices in the city. The suburban schools, for example, are funded almost entirely by local taxes, while the city schools get a large chunk of their funding from the state (which of course is tax money in large part from the rich counties.). Even things like the area transportation network (SEPTA) derive a significant portion of their revenue from the suburban to city train lines (because the fares are much more expensive than intracity routes) I find this typical argument relies on counting 'suburbs' as the poorer and less dense exurb/rural communities that are an hour+ outside the city. For the census purposes, they are considered part of the metro, but nobody would consider them what is typically considered a 'suburban area'
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  The source of the surburban wealth is the city. Proximity to the urban core is the resource used to acquire that money. Those people work high paid jobs or own businesses in the city, then pay their local taxes to the surburb where they live. So the surburbs have better schools etc because of money extracted from the city. > many area businesses are located in those surrounding suburban counties, with only small offices in the city I understand why you'd have this impression and in some very exceptional cases it can be true. But look at the gross product of the different counties in your area, not personal income. I doubt this assessment holds up.
  - vaidhy 4y ago
    I have no idea why this is getting downvoted. Make a case, if you disagree.

dahart 4y ago

Isn’t cost perhaps the main factor? There are many factors for many people, of course, but it seems like usually living near the downtown center is much more expensive than living in the suburbs, at least in terms of price per square foot. If prices are higher in urban areas, that suggests there’s evidence people actually are eager to live downtown, but suburbs are also very popular where I live as a way to have more space for the same price, or a lower overall price; you can get a newer larger house with a larger yard for less money in the suburbs compared to downtown, but the catch is you have to drive everywhere even on the weekends.

foogazi 4y ago
> you can get a newer larger house with a larger yard for less money in the suburbs compared to downtown, but the catch is you have to drive everywhere even on the weekends. That catch is the reason that it is cheaper - it’s built in to the price All of those parameters are combined into desirability. Everyone has different needs (at different times) Kids ? Suburbs: Larger house and schools Young adults ? density and night life Young adults having kids ? Suburbs
- ninthcat 4y ago
  Kids need a large house? Not places to play outside with their friends? What is a kid going to do in the suburbs that doesn't rely on being ferried around in a car for hours each day?
  - HeyImAlex 4y ago
    I grew up in the suburbs and walked out my front door to play with my friends. There were probably 15 kids around my age within 100 yards of my house, 50 in my neighborhood.
  - bluefirebrand 4y ago
    Kids need bedrooms, more kids need more bedrooms. Especially as they grow older, teenagers probably should have their own bedrooms. Urban living doesn't often give much space for kids. Also have you ever been in a suburb? They usually have parks and playgrounds everywhere. Especially at the school that the kids attend, which is likely easy to walk or bike to for the kid. Some suburbs have community centers. Some suburbs in Calgary have private lakes with parks and playgrounds that kids can go to whenever they want. They can go skating on the frozen lake in winter, swimming in summer, in walking distance to home and without their parents. Also in the suburbs houses have yards, which are even better than parks and playgrounds in some ways. My friends and I dug up a huge trench network in his parents yard one year. His parents were chill about it, we were allowed to go out with shovels and pickaxes and dig as much as we wanted really. Why not? They weren't using the yard for anything else and we had fun with it

CalRobert 4y ago

I would love to live in a dense urban environment, but the suburbs are cheap. Though in my case I live in a rural area, not suburban, because it's even cheaper. But we're working on a move to a dense urban low-car environment (Utrecht) because it's painfully lonely out here.

Ericson2314 4y ago
Moving to Netherlands?
- CalRobert 4y ago
  That's the plan.
  - Ericson2314 3y ago
    Good luck!