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> The point of the article is that for team work with unclearity you are more creative by working in a physical space together. The article also has no data su

> The point of the article is that for team work with unclearity you are more creative by working in a physical space together. The article also has no data supporting it. Only feelings. It's very typical for these sort of articles. I am a lot more productive, and even creative working from home, where I have full control of the environment I'm in and not wasting effort on social interactions. Collaboration happens effectively in a remote settings as long as the company embraces it properly. Since we are discussing feelings about remote work, this is as valid as anything else.

richbell 4y ago
> The article also has no data supporting it. Only feelings. It's very typical for these sort of articles. My company disbanded its employee productivity research group after they started providing data to the contrary. It's not about facts, it's about forcing the peons to fall in line.
yarg 4y ago
Do we always need non anecdotal data to support every assertion that we make? I've had many face to face conversations in a room with a whiteboard that couldn't have happened nearly as efficiently if everyone was remote. Now I do think that the push against work from home in general has very little to do with operating efficiency (if companies cared that much about operating efficiency they wouldn't have developers working in loud open plan offices, drowning out the world around them with headphones), but the argument that there's no utility in face to face meetings is just as meritless.
- surgical_fire 4y ago
  > Do we always need non anecdotal data to support every assertion that we make? When the claim is that remote work is a mistake and that its era came to an end... Yes. It's an exceptional claim, and exceptional claims demand exceptional data. Otherwise we should call it bullshit. > but the argument that there's no utility in face to face meetings is just as meritless. Probably. I do prefer remote work, and I favor working for companies that allow me to stay remote. But I think there's place to companies that prefer to work in office, and people that prefer to work in the same physical space as their colleagues. This balanced take doesn't seem to be very popular, however. I wonder why.
  - yarg 4y ago
    People like to see things in black and white (they're not always wrong, sometimes a compromise is the worst of all worlds).
  - twelve40 4y ago
    Well de-facto the balanced approach is here already. If you don't like OpenAI, you can go work for Gitlab. The actual interview is not as extreme as the title, and since Altman mentioned they have remote workers too, he seems to be trying to say that 100% remote for everyone is over.
    - surgical_fire 4y ago
      > he seems to be trying to say that 100% remote for everyone is over. That is not a balanced take. In fact, it's pretty extreme. Plenty of companies are 0% remote, plenty of companies are 100%, and plenty others are somewhere in between. His take that 100% remote is over is bizarre and somewhat confrontational, without any data to back it up. It's plain bullshit.
      - twelve40 4y ago
        fwiw my personal take is if 100% remote actually worked for the mainstream companies, all of us would have been outsourced to Kenya or Pakistan at 1/10th the cost instead of taking leisurely dog walks between the zoom meetings in Austin, but this simple thought seems to not have crossed the advocates' minds.
        Klinky 4y ago
        That would assume timezone, language, legal, cultural, governmental, and infrastructural differences don't exist between countries. Outsourcing outside your country of incorporation is a completely different challenge compared to remote work within your country of incorporation.
        4y ago
- watwut 4y ago
  In this case, yes. Because otherwise I will just go with my anecdotal observation that this is just about management feeling lonely and with less control.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
remote_phone 4y ago
> I am a lot more productive, and even creative working from home What’s the data to support this statement? It sounds like a feeling. Do you have data to support whether or not your teammates’ productivity are affected by you being remote?
- surgical_fire 4y ago
  Maybe you should have read the post you're replying to in its entirety.

richbell 4y ago

> The article also has no data supporting it. Only feelings. It's very typical for these sort of articles. My company disbanded its employee productivity research group after they started providing data to the contrary. It's not about facts, it's about forcing the peons to fall in line.

yarg 4y ago

Do we always need non anecdotal data to support every assertion that we make? I've had many face to face conversations in a room with a whiteboard that couldn't have happened nearly as efficiently if everyone was remote. Now I do think that the push against work from home in general has very little to do with operating efficiency (if companies cared that much about operating efficiency they wouldn't have developers working in loud open plan offices, drowning out the world around them with headphones), but the argument that there's no utility in face to face meetings is just as meritless.

surgical_fire 4y ago
> Do we always need non anecdotal data to support every assertion that we make? When the claim is that remote work is a mistake and that its era came to an end... Yes. It's an exceptional claim, and exceptional claims demand exceptional data. Otherwise we should call it bullshit. > but the argument that there's no utility in face to face meetings is just as meritless. Probably. I do prefer remote work, and I favor working for companies that allow me to stay remote. But I think there's place to companies that prefer to work in office, and people that prefer to work in the same physical space as their colleagues. This balanced take doesn't seem to be very popular, however. I wonder why.
- yarg 4y ago
  People like to see things in black and white (they're not always wrong, sometimes a compromise is the worst of all worlds).
- twelve40 4y ago
  Well de-facto the balanced approach is here already. If you don't like OpenAI, you can go work for Gitlab. The actual interview is not as extreme as the title, and since Altman mentioned they have remote workers too, he seems to be trying to say that 100% remote for everyone is over.
  - surgical_fire 4y ago
    > he seems to be trying to say that 100% remote for everyone is over. That is not a balanced take. In fact, it's pretty extreme. Plenty of companies are 0% remote, plenty of companies are 100%, and plenty others are somewhere in between. His take that 100% remote is over is bizarre and somewhat confrontational, without any data to back it up. It's plain bullshit.
    - twelve40 4y ago
      fwiw my personal take is if 100% remote actually worked for the mainstream companies, all of us would have been outsourced to Kenya or Pakistan at 1/10th the cost instead of taking leisurely dog walks between the zoom meetings in Austin, but this simple thought seems to not have crossed the advocates' minds.
      - Klinky 4y ago
        That would assume timezone, language, legal, cultural, governmental, and infrastructural differences don't exist between countries. Outsourcing outside your country of incorporation is a completely different challenge compared to remote work within your country of incorporation.
        4y ago
watwut 4y ago
In this case, yes. Because otherwise I will just go with my anecdotal observation that this is just about management feeling lonely and with less control.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

remote_phone 4y ago

> I am a lot more productive, and even creative working from home What’s the data to support this statement? It sounds like a feeling. Do you have data to support whether or not your teammates’ productivity are affected by you being remote?

surgical_fire 4y ago
Maybe you should have read the post you're replying to in its entirety.