4 ms·

V and W were considered two graphic variants of the same letter until about two decades ago. The W sound was lost centuries ago but reintroduced with English w

V and W were considered two graphic variants of the same letter until about two decades ago. The W sound was lost centuries ago but reintroduced with English words.

pavlov 3y ago
Yes. In Finnish and Swedish, the letters V and W traditionally collated together. In other words, this is a correctly alphabetically ordered list: Wasa Virtanen Wiva Viwe The rule was apparently changed in 2006 in Sweden though (with Finland presumably tagging along). There’s probably still plenty of SQL installations around using the old collation rules because tables were created before the 2006 change reached database software.
- doikor 3y ago
  It kinda depends. In a list of names, dictionaries, etc V and W would be separately. This is to make finding the word you are looking for easier. Also in Finnish ÅÄÖ are the end of alphabet. Also Ü and Ű would should be grouped with Y. Õ and Ő with Ö.
  - pavlov 3y ago
    > “In a list of names, dictionaries, etc V and W would be separately. This is to make finding the word you are looking for easier.” If you look at older phone books and dictionaries until the 1990s at least, you’ll find that V and W are combined. There are common surnames in Finland that retain the V/W spelling equivalence, like Virtanen and Wirtanen. When they are grouped together (as they traditionally were), it’s easier to find a person by name because you don’t need to know which way it’s spelled.
marginalia_nu 3y ago
It's also noteworthy that in Swedish, w is a double-v not a double-u.
- Mistletoe 3y ago
  Just realized how weird it is we call it double-u when it is a double-v. Language is weird.
  - marginalia_nu 3y ago
    The history of u, v, double-u and double-v is really convoluted. They're the same letter but also not quite. There are historical reasons that make sense as to why this is.
- dadadad100 3y ago
  In French also [1] [1] https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/French/Alphabet https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/French/Alphabet

V and W were considered two graphic variants of the same letter until about two decades ago. The W sound was lost centuries ago but reintroduced with English words.

pavlov 3y ago

Yes. In Finnish and Swedish, the letters V and W traditionally collated together. In other words, this is a correctly alphabetically ordered list: Wasa Virtanen Wiva Viwe The rule was apparently changed in 2006 in Sweden though (with Finland presumably tagging along). There’s probably still plenty of SQL installations around using the old collation rules because tables were created before the 2006 change reached database software.

doikor 3y ago
It kinda depends. In a list of names, dictionaries, etc V and W would be separately. This is to make finding the word you are looking for easier. Also in Finnish ÅÄÖ are the end of alphabet. Also Ü and Ű would should be grouped with Y. Õ and Ő with Ö.
- pavlov 3y ago
  > “In a list of names, dictionaries, etc V and W would be separately. This is to make finding the word you are looking for easier.” If you look at older phone books and dictionaries until the 1990s at least, you’ll find that V and W are combined. There are common surnames in Finland that retain the V/W spelling equivalence, like Virtanen and Wirtanen. When they are grouped together (as they traditionally were), it’s easier to find a person by name because you don’t need to know which way it’s spelled.

marginalia_nu 3y ago

It's also noteworthy that in Swedish, w is a double-v not a double-u.

Mistletoe 3y ago
Just realized how weird it is we call it double-u when it is a double-v. Language is weird.
- marginalia_nu 3y ago
  The history of u, v, double-u and double-v is really convoluted. They're the same letter but also not quite. There are historical reasons that make sense as to why this is.
dadadad100 3y ago
In French also [1] [1] https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/French/Alphabet https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/French/Alphabet