2 ms·

Do we need computers? Do we need indoor plumbing connected to active sewage treatment? Do we need heating out of anything more sophisticated than a wood-burning

Do we need computers? Do we need indoor plumbing connected to active sewage treatment? Do we need heating out of anything more sophisticated than a wood-burning hearth of handmade bricks? Cutting the energy bill of the bottom half of the country by an order of magnitude seems to me a self-evident justification, and that's only the first-order effect. Manufactories of producer goods and specialty parts in Germany are shuttering right now because of newly-unmanageable energy cost fluctuations. That puts German workers on the curb, prices consumer goods for all of Germany's sub-median class higher while their wages fall from the labor glut and cratered investor/entrepreneur confidence, and bleeds the ability of producers still above water to maintain a healthy sales base through competitive international products and prices. With all these people in mind, I've started wondering something about your plea for frugality; what's your delta from the US median compensation, and do you tell it to people in politically-worrying husks like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, or Ohio after you're done reminding them they really could keep their heart beating without cheap energy if they just try a little harder?

ceejayoz 3y ago
Long response that entirely misses the point. We don’t use 10x the energy because that guess from the 1960s entirely missed the technological revolution that is small, energy efficient computing. (And other similar advances. The 1960s never anticipated, say, how energy efficient a 787 could be. It was instead the era that thought you might slap a nuclear reactor in an aircraft. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_NB-36H https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_NB-36H) It’s not an appeal to frugality. It’s “raw energy usage alone is a goofy metric for a goal to increase”. Do we (including my relatives in the wasteland that is Ohio) need heating? Yep! But we don’t need 10x the energy to do it; my 97% efficient gas furnace replaced a 60% efficient one from the 1980s.

ceejayoz 3y ago

Long response that entirely misses the point. We don’t use 10x the energy because that guess from the 1960s entirely missed the technological revolution that is small, energy efficient computing. (And other similar advances. The 1960s never anticipated, say, how energy efficient a 787 could be. It was instead the era that thought you might slap a nuclear reactor in an aircraft. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_NB-36H https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_NB-36H) It’s not an appeal to frugality. It’s “raw energy usage alone is a goofy metric for a goal to increase”. Do we (including my relatives in the wasteland that is Ohio) need heating? Yep! But we don’t need 10x the energy to do it; my 97% efficient gas furnace replaced a 60% efficient one from the 1980s.