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Seriously, bizarre posts like this are starting to sound more and more like conspiracy theories.

by xk_id 3y ago

mjburgess 3y ago
Well, a pyramid scheme is a kind of "automated conspiracy" What else would you call, say, the NFT phenomenon?
- RestlessMind 3y ago
  NFTs are similar to art pieces. Why does a JPEG monkey cost millions? Why does a banana taped to a wall cost hundreds of thousands of dollars[1]? Why do paintings, which look like work of a 4 year old, sell for millions? [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/238405/us-gold-production-since-2005/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/238405/us-gold-productio...
- xk_id 3y ago
  The NFT “phenomenon”? It’s a code template and API called the ERC721 standard, which can be used to secure, verify and transfer digital ownership on a distributed ledger. There’s been so much done (and often right here on HN) to explain how crypto and NFTs are innovative, to link educational resources and list real world examples of legitimate use. As well as to resolve the various ideological controversies. Maybe it’s not quite common knowledge yet, but there’s no excuse in 2023 for being so clueless and, yet, assertive.
  - btilly 3y ago
    I'm well aware of all that has been done to explain the ideas behind crypto, NFTs, and the rest of the ecosystem. I know what the boosters say and can do a decent job of explaining it in a pinch. I've been hearing about it here and elsewhere since 2009. I also believe that the entire crypto ecosystem is a wasteful solution in search of a problem. And the biggest players in the space, over and over again have been proven to be criminal frauds trying to generate the next hype wave. Often through wash trading to make it appear that there is more of a market than there is. The current wave of legal problems for Celsius, FTX, Binance and so on have started to reveal the lies that many expected all along. For example we've found out in court that the "attestations" long used by many were faked. (Not that this was a surprise given that, for example, Tether was revealed previously to have been faking its numbers.) To the extent that there actually was money, a lot of it was in now failed banks like Signature Bank. Or it is connected to money laundering, as happened with Tether. (See https://protos.com/did-tether-falsify-documents-to-fool-cautious-banksc/ https://protos.com/did-tether-falsify-documents-to-fool-caut... for one of many places where that is reported.) The sky-high valuations for cryptocurrencies these days are not believable. Yes, people trade that many tethers for a bitcoin, but good luck getting tethers redeemed. And most consumers had their money in fraudulent exchanges like FTX and Binance. They are learning the hard way the truth of, "Not your keys, not your crypto." You say that there is no excuse in 2023 for being so clueless and, yet, assertive. I say that there is no excuse in 2023 for you being so dismissive about a field filled with Ponzi schemes, some of which have collapsed and others of which are still able to pretend to a solvency that they clearly don't have.
    - xk_id 3y ago
      > I also believe that the entire crypto ecosystem is a wasteful solution in search of a problem. It’s just embarrassing to write this when there are so many real world examples of solutions being solved right now by crypto, as well as many active users of crypto who couldn’t care less whether it solves a problem you, personally, have. The fact that you see Celsius, FTX and binance as a paragon of crypto and decentralised finance shows just how little you’ve been paying attention. They are centralised, crypto-adjacent companies. Please look at Yearn, Aave, Curve, Uniswap, GMX, Gearbox, NFTfi, Illuvium, countless NFT gated communities, and news reports of people in the third world using blockchains to make emergency, life saving transactions. And then afterwards maybe your beliefs about crypto might be worth posting in public forums.
      - btilly 3y ago
        Good luck with your defi obsession, and we'll see which of the two of us is more embarrassed in a decade. You've offered no concrete evidence that there is any "there" there in crypto. But you can rattle off a bunch of projects. Yay, I guess? Since you offered no evidence to counter what I said, I'll give an argument as low quality. Namely an argument from authority. I have about 200x the reputation that you do. I also have a background as a mathematician, a quarter century as a programmer, and used to work on Wall St. Unless you provide actual EXAMPLES of real world examples of solutions ACTUALLY being solved by crypto, as well as reason to believe that the crypto ecosystem upon which those solutions rest is sustainable, I'm going to believe my knowledge, experience, and professional background over your fly by night content free crypto boosterism.
        xk_id 3y ago
        why you got to ridicule me for actually knowing about the conversation topic, framing it as obsessive? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-O3r2YMWJ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-O3r2YMWJ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uN46EsSBQw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uN46EsSBQw https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32103472 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32103472 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35473327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35473327 congrats on your qualifications, tho

Seriously, bizarre posts like this are starting to sound more and more like conspiracy theories.

by xk_id 3y ago

Seriously, bizarre posts like this are starting to sound more and more like conspiracy theories.

mjburgess 3y ago

Well, a pyramid scheme is a kind of "automated conspiracy" What else would you call, say, the NFT phenomenon?

RestlessMind 3y ago
NFTs are similar to art pieces. Why does a JPEG monkey cost millions? Why does a banana taped to a wall cost hundreds of thousands of dollars[1]? Why do paintings, which look like work of a 4 year old, sell for millions? [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/238405/us-gold-production-since-2005/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/238405/us-gold-productio...
xk_id 3y ago
The NFT “phenomenon”? It’s a code template and API called the ERC721 standard, which can be used to secure, verify and transfer digital ownership on a distributed ledger. There’s been so much done (and often right here on HN) to explain how crypto and NFTs are innovative, to link educational resources and list real world examples of legitimate use. As well as to resolve the various ideological controversies. Maybe it’s not quite common knowledge yet, but there’s no excuse in 2023 for being so clueless and, yet, assertive.
- btilly 3y ago
  I'm well aware of all that has been done to explain the ideas behind crypto, NFTs, and the rest of the ecosystem. I know what the boosters say and can do a decent job of explaining it in a pinch. I've been hearing about it here and elsewhere since 2009. I also believe that the entire crypto ecosystem is a wasteful solution in search of a problem. And the biggest players in the space, over and over again have been proven to be criminal frauds trying to generate the next hype wave. Often through wash trading to make it appear that there is more of a market than there is. The current wave of legal problems for Celsius, FTX, Binance and so on have started to reveal the lies that many expected all along. For example we've found out in court that the "attestations" long used by many were faked. (Not that this was a surprise given that, for example, Tether was revealed previously to have been faking its numbers.) To the extent that there actually was money, a lot of it was in now failed banks like Signature Bank. Or it is connected to money laundering, as happened with Tether. (See https://protos.com/did-tether-falsify-documents-to-fool-cautious-banksc/ https://protos.com/did-tether-falsify-documents-to-fool-caut... for one of many places where that is reported.) The sky-high valuations for cryptocurrencies these days are not believable. Yes, people trade that many tethers for a bitcoin, but good luck getting tethers redeemed. And most consumers had their money in fraudulent exchanges like FTX and Binance. They are learning the hard way the truth of, "Not your keys, not your crypto." You say that there is no excuse in 2023 for being so clueless and, yet, assertive. I say that there is no excuse in 2023 for you being so dismissive about a field filled with Ponzi schemes, some of which have collapsed and others of which are still able to pretend to a solvency that they clearly don't have.
  - xk_id 3y ago
    > I also believe that the entire crypto ecosystem is a wasteful solution in search of a problem. It’s just embarrassing to write this when there are so many real world examples of solutions being solved right now by crypto, as well as many active users of crypto who couldn’t care less whether it solves a problem you, personally, have. The fact that you see Celsius, FTX and binance as a paragon of crypto and decentralised finance shows just how little you’ve been paying attention. They are centralised, crypto-adjacent companies. Please look at Yearn, Aave, Curve, Uniswap, GMX, Gearbox, NFTfi, Illuvium, countless NFT gated communities, and news reports of people in the third world using blockchains to make emergency, life saving transactions. And then afterwards maybe your beliefs about crypto might be worth posting in public forums.
    - btilly 3y ago
      Good luck with your defi obsession, and we'll see which of the two of us is more embarrassed in a decade. You've offered no concrete evidence that there is any "there" there in crypto. But you can rattle off a bunch of projects. Yay, I guess? Since you offered no evidence to counter what I said, I'll give an argument as low quality. Namely an argument from authority. I have about 200x the reputation that you do. I also have a background as a mathematician, a quarter century as a programmer, and used to work on Wall St. Unless you provide actual EXAMPLES of real world examples of solutions ACTUALLY being solved by crypto, as well as reason to believe that the crypto ecosystem upon which those solutions rest is sustainable, I'm going to believe my knowledge, experience, and professional background over your fly by night content free crypto boosterism.
      - xk_id 3y ago
        why you got to ridicule me for actually knowing about the conversation topic, framing it as obsessive? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-O3r2YMWJ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-O3r2YMWJ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uN46EsSBQw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uN46EsSBQw https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32103472 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32103472 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35473327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35473327 congrats on your qualifications, tho