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> You can’t really change what people want without enacting dystopian/fascist policies. Yes you can, you can educate them. Decide on how to categorise the envi

> You can’t really change what people want without enacting dystopian/fascist policies. Yes you can, you can educate them. Decide on how to categorise the environmental impact of each car and mandate that it is labelled as such. Unless you deem such regulation as dystopian?

gruez 3y ago
I think he's talking about policies similar to natural gas stove bans, which ostensibly seem less concerned about addressing externalities and more concerned about imposing a choice onto others.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  Worth noting is that there really isn't a push to ban natural gas stoves, that is just politics hyping up something someone somewhere said because it gets uncritical supporters spun up and paying attention to who they're supposed to be angry at today. There are definitely some places that'd like to stop building out new housing with natural gas service, however. But that isn't quite as rage inducing as telling people the leftists are coming for their cherished gas range.
  - dahfizz 3y ago
    > Worth noting is that there really isn't a push to ban natural gas stoves, that is just politics hyping up something someone somewhere said NY state has banned gas stoves in new buildings[1]. Someone is pushing enough for legislatures to act. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/03/us/new-york-natural-gas-ban-climate/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/03/us/new-york-natural-gas-ban-c...
    - rootusrootus 3y ago
      That's a push to ban gas service from new construction. It's not specific to gas stoves. Nobody is coming for your gas stove. Not now, not ever. It's such a huge political loser that nobody other than a few crazy municipalities will even talk about it.
  - gruez 3y ago
    >Worth noting is that there really isn't a push to ban natural gas stoves [...] There are definitely some places that'd like to stop building out new housing with natural gas service There might be a tangible difference between "banning gas stoves in new construction" and "banning gas stoves", but as it relates to this conversation they're still the same. ie. >ostensibly seem less concerned about addressing externalities and more concerned about imposing a choice onto others
    - rootusrootus 3y ago
      The push isn't anything to do with stoves, though. Nobody cares about stoves, the primary negative externality is the health of the user, and presumably they made that choice of their own free will. The push is to ban natural gas utilities at all, which are a meaningful contribution to pollution. The idea that it has anything to do with stoves is just politicians & 'media' personalities playing to the fears of their base.
rootusrootus 3y ago
This assumes people buy cars based on the environmental footprint. Sure, a few people do, but most people just look for something that meets their needs. In my driveway sits a Chevrolet Bolt. In my garage is a Model 3. When I replace one of them, it will be with a crossover. A Model Y, if I could just wave a magic wand today and replace the Model 3. I want a slightly taller car. And not because of some conspiracy of marketing, either, but because it will be a better fit for my needs.
dahfizz 3y ago
For such an expensive and important purchase, only a small fraction of people would care about this label. There are too many other factors at play (Can this car fit my whole family? Is this car safe, affordable, reliable? etc)

gruez 3y ago

I think he's talking about policies similar to natural gas stove bans, which ostensibly seem less concerned about addressing externalities and more concerned about imposing a choice onto others.

rootusrootus 3y ago
Worth noting is that there really isn't a push to ban natural gas stoves, that is just politics hyping up something someone somewhere said because it gets uncritical supporters spun up and paying attention to who they're supposed to be angry at today. There are definitely some places that'd like to stop building out new housing with natural gas service, however. But that isn't quite as rage inducing as telling people the leftists are coming for their cherished gas range.
- dahfizz 3y ago
  > Worth noting is that there really isn't a push to ban natural gas stoves, that is just politics hyping up something someone somewhere said NY state has banned gas stoves in new buildings[1]. Someone is pushing enough for legislatures to act. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/03/us/new-york-natural-gas-ban-climate/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/03/us/new-york-natural-gas-ban-c...
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    That's a push to ban gas service from new construction. It's not specific to gas stoves. Nobody is coming for your gas stove. Not now, not ever. It's such a huge political loser that nobody other than a few crazy municipalities will even talk about it.
- gruez 3y ago
  >Worth noting is that there really isn't a push to ban natural gas stoves [...] There are definitely some places that'd like to stop building out new housing with natural gas service There might be a tangible difference between "banning gas stoves in new construction" and "banning gas stoves", but as it relates to this conversation they're still the same. ie. >ostensibly seem less concerned about addressing externalities and more concerned about imposing a choice onto others
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    The push isn't anything to do with stoves, though. Nobody cares about stoves, the primary negative externality is the health of the user, and presumably they made that choice of their own free will. The push is to ban natural gas utilities at all, which are a meaningful contribution to pollution. The idea that it has anything to do with stoves is just politicians & 'media' personalities playing to the fears of their base.

rootusrootus 3y ago

This assumes people buy cars based on the environmental footprint. Sure, a few people do, but most people just look for something that meets their needs. In my driveway sits a Chevrolet Bolt. In my garage is a Model 3. When I replace one of them, it will be with a crossover. A Model Y, if I could just wave a magic wand today and replace the Model 3. I want a slightly taller car. And not because of some conspiracy of marketing, either, but because it will be a better fit for my needs.

dahfizz 3y ago

For such an expensive and important purchase, only a small fraction of people would care about this label. There are too many other factors at play (Can this car fit my whole family? Is this car safe, affordable, reliable? etc)