4 ms·

The Black Panthers and victims of Mcarthism wiuld disagree. The current whistleblowers like Snowden also would disagree.

jacooper 3y ago
And assange.
BeFlatXIII 3y ago
For these exact reasons, I'm more comfortable with Xi Jinping's cronies spying on my every movement than my own government. The Chinese only do that stuff to their own citizens and I'm a zero-value target to them. US authorities may feel like being petty one day.
- kelipso 3y ago
  Seriously. What happened to that whole philosophy that the founding fathers had about being wary of our own government and the tendency of governments to overreach to control its citizenry. That entire sentiment seem to have disappeared especially in the last few years in favor of China-Russia-terrorism-whatever new bs hysteria.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    The red scare wasn't in the last few years.
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_and_Michael_Kovrig#:~:text=The%20detention%20of%20Michael%20Kovrig,by%20her%20father%20Ren%20Zhengfei https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_.... China absolutely does not limit their abductions to their own citizens. If you're in China, you're fair game.
  - BeFlatXIII 3y ago
    I have no plans to visit China, thankfully.
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  You should do some more research about who China is willing to imprison for political purposes. It is absolutely not limited to Chinese citizens.
- w7 3y ago
  That's too simplistic of a line of thinking. They've: "fabricate evidence that the hosts of and participants in the meetings to commemorate the Tiananmen Square massacre were supporting terrorist organizations, inciting violence or distributing child pornography" [0] You mention only being concerned about US authorities, but have somehow failed to realize they can fabricate evidence and send it to US authorities in an attempt to reach you from across the pond. [0] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/china-based-executive-us-telecommunications-company-charged-disrupting-video-meetings https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/china-based-executive-us-tele...
- qwe2645692 3y ago
  However, China has 1.4 billion people, they will do whatever to collect resources, including information and user stats which powers the recommendation system behind TikTok, which is ruining your next generation. Have I mentioned that China and Russia are deep allied and are probably sharing intelligence? I don't think the US government is worse than Russia's.
BobbyJo 3y ago
Were they apprehended via corporate spying? I wasn't aware of that.
Xeoncross 3y ago
We're talking about millions of people (hundreds of millions over the last ~70 years) that have been sought out by the CCP for arrest and murder because of their non-violent views and ideals.
- powerapple 3y ago
  hundreds of millions people have been arrested and murdered because of "your reality", do you take into the consideration for the infrastructure to arrest and murder hundreds of millions people?
- chrischen 3y ago
  The problem is you’re judging based on different standards and ideals, but the violations are fundamentally the same. So China can imprison citizens, the US decided to make it harder to imprison citizens. We do arbitrary drone strikes on people we don’t like, on foreign sovereign territory. We have Guantanamo. The fact that we arbitrarily draw a line at “our own citizens” is frankly meaningless in the grand scale and not really a meaningful distinction in terms of human rights.
  - hatsune 3y ago
    A best explanation by EFF here(https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/03/government-hasnt-justified-tiktok-ban https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/03/government-hasnt-justi...) is that it is not only for TikTok. A transparant system of regulating and even auditing what telemetry services can acquire is fundamentally and universally beneficial for whatever country the service is based in. But it is not surprising that those laws are never passed so far. Google in their software realm is too strong to be combated as compared to their hardware realm with right to repair. The big names in hardware are replacable as they all buy stock solution (like fingerprint sensor), and those sensor manufacturers don't care about right to repair. But Instagram or Snapchat or WhatsApp or Tiktok or whatever are not that replacable and thus more addictive and better for the company. Google or Meta is definitely not giving up on these places, and considering their influence, the future ain't bright.
unholythree 3y ago
Macarthy was disgraced by 1954, and almost universally reviled for the lives he ruined with his slander. I think you can point to him as an example of what happens when demagogues go unopposed (even for a time) in the American system, but not as the normal or desired product of our political system.
- inamorty 3y ago
  And yet “In God We Trust” and the pledge of allegiance were adopted during that era.

jacooper 3y ago

And assange.

BeFlatXIII 3y ago

For these exact reasons, I'm more comfortable with Xi Jinping's cronies spying on my every movement than my own government. The Chinese only do that stuff to their own citizens and I'm a zero-value target to them. US authorities may feel like being petty one day.

kelipso 3y ago
Seriously. What happened to that whole philosophy that the founding fathers had about being wary of our own government and the tendency of governments to overreach to control its citizenry. That entire sentiment seem to have disappeared especially in the last few years in favor of China-Russia-terrorism-whatever new bs hysteria.
- thfuran 3y ago
  The red scare wasn't in the last few years.
bluefirebrand 3y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_and_Michael_Kovrig#:~:text=The%20detention%20of%20Michael%20Kovrig,by%20her%20father%20Ren%20Zhengfei https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_.... China absolutely does not limit their abductions to their own citizens. If you're in China, you're fair game.
- BeFlatXIII 3y ago
  I have no plans to visit China, thankfully.
dghlsakjg 3y ago
You should do some more research about who China is willing to imprison for political purposes. It is absolutely not limited to Chinese citizens.
w7 3y ago
That's too simplistic of a line of thinking. They've: "fabricate evidence that the hosts of and participants in the meetings to commemorate the Tiananmen Square massacre were supporting terrorist organizations, inciting violence or distributing child pornography" [0] You mention only being concerned about US authorities, but have somehow failed to realize they can fabricate evidence and send it to US authorities in an attempt to reach you from across the pond. [0] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/china-based-executive-us-telecommunications-company-charged-disrupting-video-meetings https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/china-based-executive-us-tele...
qwe2645692 3y ago
However, China has 1.4 billion people, they will do whatever to collect resources, including information and user stats which powers the recommendation system behind TikTok, which is ruining your next generation. Have I mentioned that China and Russia are deep allied and are probably sharing intelligence? I don't think the US government is worse than Russia's.

BobbyJo 3y ago

Were they apprehended via corporate spying? I wasn't aware of that.

Xeoncross 3y ago

We're talking about millions of people (hundreds of millions over the last ~70 years) that have been sought out by the CCP for arrest and murder because of their non-violent views and ideals.

powerapple 3y ago
hundreds of millions people have been arrested and murdered because of "your reality", do you take into the consideration for the infrastructure to arrest and murder hundreds of millions people?
chrischen 3y ago
The problem is you’re judging based on different standards and ideals, but the violations are fundamentally the same. So China can imprison citizens, the US decided to make it harder to imprison citizens. We do arbitrary drone strikes on people we don’t like, on foreign sovereign territory. We have Guantanamo. The fact that we arbitrarily draw a line at “our own citizens” is frankly meaningless in the grand scale and not really a meaningful distinction in terms of human rights.
- hatsune 3y ago
  A best explanation by EFF here(https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/03/government-hasnt-justified-tiktok-ban https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/03/government-hasnt-justi...) is that it is not only for TikTok. A transparant system of regulating and even auditing what telemetry services can acquire is fundamentally and universally beneficial for whatever country the service is based in. But it is not surprising that those laws are never passed so far. Google in their software realm is too strong to be combated as compared to their hardware realm with right to repair. The big names in hardware are replacable as they all buy stock solution (like fingerprint sensor), and those sensor manufacturers don't care about right to repair. But Instagram or Snapchat or WhatsApp or Tiktok or whatever are not that replacable and thus more addictive and better for the company. Google or Meta is definitely not giving up on these places, and considering their influence, the future ain't bright.

unholythree 3y ago

Macarthy was disgraced by 1954, and almost universally reviled for the lives he ruined with his slander. I think you can point to him as an example of what happens when demagogues go unopposed (even for a time) in the American system, but not as the normal or desired product of our political system.

inamorty 3y ago
And yet “In God We Trust” and the pledge of allegiance were adopted during that era.