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Which is all good in principle, and it'll be interesting to see how it works out. The profile portability story is good, save that as far as I can tell, Bluesk

Which is all good in principle, and it'll be interesting to see how it works out. The profile portability story is good, save that as far as I can tell, Bluesky server operators don't actually do much save for provide storage and a place for clients to connect to, specifically because the algorithms and curation are being treated as a separate layer. So ironically I see far less reason for identity portability in that ecosystem since (to my knowledge) the server you're using doesn't have much of an impact on your experience. Additionally, this layered functional architecture creates new kinds of problems. For example, with Mastodon, if I'm helping fund my instance (which I do) I'm also helping fund the moderation staff, because the instance architecture and the moderation story are tightly coupled. With BS, moderation is a separate service which has to be funded... how? Same goes with curation. So I still have a lot of questions about the Bluesky model. And this is all assuming they actually pull off what they claim, and it's still waaaay too early to say if this'll all work in practice.

brundolf 3y ago
> So ironically I see far less reason for identity portability in that ecosystem since (to my knowledge) the server you're using doesn't have much of an impact on your experience To an extent, though I still think it's valuable for situations where eg. a host might decide they don't want to host you if you post certain content. In the same way: a website host doesn't normally have much of an impact on your experience, unless they decide to kick you off or otherwise exert control over you > moderation as a separate service, which has to be funded... how? It's an interesting question; I think some of it will be answered with algorithmic/AI-based filtering (false-positives are more tolerable if users have the ability to opt out!). People have also talked about a model where you can just share (or subscribe to) communal block-lists. So maybe your circle of friends does its own internal "moderation" just by using the site (blocking people is already a normal part of my day today usage of both bsky and twitter) With a platform this open and flexible, there are tons of options to be explored! > And this is all assuming they actually pull off what they claim, and it's still waaaay too early to say if this'll all work in practice. It definitely is! But I'm excited and hopeful
lapcat 3y ago
> So ironically I see far less reason for identity portability in that ecosystem since (to my knowledge) the server you're using doesn't have much of an impact on your experience. One of the biggest reasons why people change Mastodon instances is because the instance shuts down. I had to do an emergency switch because my instance admin went AWOL, and it was breaking down technically. In other cases, the admins decide they don't want do run an instance anymore, for whatever reason. If posts could be migrated on Bluesky, that would be a vast improvement over Mastodon.
- BaseballPhysics 3y ago
  You are right, that is definitely one very good reason why many people move (though in the Mastodon world, I would argue it's probably not the biggest reason outside of weird events like the shutdown of mastodon.lol), and in the Bluesky world, probably the primary reason (since there's no concept of local moderation or community policies that you might disagree with, thereby leading to an instance switch).
  - lapcat 3y ago
    > I would argue it's probably not the biggest reason outside of weird events like the shutdown of mastodon.lol A number of such events have occurred. I haven't actually heard of anyone moderated off an instance (aside from spammers), but maybe I hang with the "wrong" crowd for that.
    - BaseballPhysics 3y ago
      It absolutely happens. Eh, tbh though, I don't know why I was arguing that point, it really doesn't matter one way or another. You absolutely identified a very good reason to want to switch instances, and why account portability has value in the Bluesky world. I wish ActivityPub had a better solve for this, but unfortunately a true federated model makes that awfully difficult (since the entire ecosystem has to update its view of where posts are located). Similarly, if I'm in a length email exchange with a friend on Gmail, and then I move to another service, there's no way to update my friend's account to "rewrite" those emails to point to the new service. It's a deep limitation in the model itself. The only question is whether the tradeoff is worth it (and, to me, it is).

brundolf 3y ago

> So ironically I see far less reason for identity portability in that ecosystem since (to my knowledge) the server you're using doesn't have much of an impact on your experience To an extent, though I still think it's valuable for situations where eg. a host might decide they don't want to host you if you post certain content. In the same way: a website host doesn't normally have much of an impact on your experience, unless they decide to kick you off or otherwise exert control over you > moderation as a separate service, which has to be funded... how? It's an interesting question; I think some of it will be answered with algorithmic/AI-based filtering (false-positives are more tolerable if users have the ability to opt out!). People have also talked about a model where you can just share (or subscribe to) communal block-lists. So maybe your circle of friends does its own internal "moderation" just by using the site (blocking people is already a normal part of my day today usage of both bsky and twitter) With a platform this open and flexible, there are tons of options to be explored! > And this is all assuming they actually pull off what they claim, and it's still waaaay too early to say if this'll all work in practice. It definitely is! But I'm excited and hopeful

lapcat 3y ago

> So ironically I see far less reason for identity portability in that ecosystem since (to my knowledge) the server you're using doesn't have much of an impact on your experience. One of the biggest reasons why people change Mastodon instances is because the instance shuts down. I had to do an emergency switch because my instance admin went AWOL, and it was breaking down technically. In other cases, the admins decide they don't want do run an instance anymore, for whatever reason. If posts could be migrated on Bluesky, that would be a vast improvement over Mastodon.

BaseballPhysics 3y ago
You are right, that is definitely one very good reason why many people move (though in the Mastodon world, I would argue it's probably not the biggest reason outside of weird events like the shutdown of mastodon.lol), and in the Bluesky world, probably the primary reason (since there's no concept of local moderation or community policies that you might disagree with, thereby leading to an instance switch).
- lapcat 3y ago
  > I would argue it's probably not the biggest reason outside of weird events like the shutdown of mastodon.lol A number of such events have occurred. I haven't actually heard of anyone moderated off an instance (aside from spammers), but maybe I hang with the "wrong" crowd for that.
  - BaseballPhysics 3y ago
    It absolutely happens. Eh, tbh though, I don't know why I was arguing that point, it really doesn't matter one way or another. You absolutely identified a very good reason to want to switch instances, and why account portability has value in the Bluesky world. I wish ActivityPub had a better solve for this, but unfortunately a true federated model makes that awfully difficult (since the entire ecosystem has to update its view of where posts are located). Similarly, if I'm in a length email exchange with a friend on Gmail, and then I move to another service, there's no way to update my friend's account to "rewrite" those emails to point to the new service. It's a deep limitation in the model itself. The only question is whether the tradeoff is worth it (and, to me, it is).