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As an artist, I would be trying to build/train a model off of my own work to help speed up the creative process and work with AI to create unique images that I

As an artist, I would be trying to build/train a model off of my own work to help speed up the creative process and work with AI to create unique images that I couldn't think of.

m463 3y ago
If you train on your own work, are you speeding up a creative process? Or more of a derivative process? Will you become more of yourself yesterday than yourself tomorrow?
- skyyler 3y ago
  What's the difference between a creative process or a derivative process? Aesthetics isn't just now grappling with the question of originality. This is an old conversation, people have been arguing that all creative work is technically derivative for (thousands of?) years.
  - comfypotato 3y ago
    It’s analogous to the idea that there are no original thoughts (which is quickly obviously false). To the parent’s question: on some kind of margin I think it would lead to more derivative work, but the net effect would still be novel creative output by a human. (I read the original idea as using the model as inspiration as much as a producer.)
- danielfoster 3y ago
  Why not try this with your own art and see?
- filoleg 3y ago
  > Will you become more of yourself yesterday than yourself tomorrow? No, because using AI for providing you with a starting point material trained on your own work (that you've already done before manually), and then building an artwork on top of that manually without any AI will let you spend less time on things you've already done (aka you-yesterday) and focus more on creating new things you haven't done yet (you-tomorrow). Which is the whole point. Just because most visual art starts with basic shapes and builds everything on top of that doesn't make all that art "derivative" or "impeding your creative process". An analogy to writing code, even though it isn't the best analogy - rewriting boilerplate starter code manually for a new project (instead of reusing the starter boilerplate code you wrote before for a previous project), isn't going to make your new code "more derivative" or make you "more of yourself yesterday". Doing so will let you simply spend less time and energy on the samey boilerplate and will let you focus on your actual novel code instead.
  - kevviiinn 3y ago
    That makes it sound like artist style doesn't evoke over time and that it isn't influenced by outside sources
    - filoleg 3y ago
      No, that wasn't my intent, and I felt like I articulated it well enough where it is obvious I didn't even imply that. Artist style evolves over time, and it is influenced by outside sources, I agree with you. That evolution of style and influence will show up just fine in the manual parts of the work the artist is doing (past the ai-generated "starter boilerplate")
      - kevviiinn 3y ago
        Using AI trained on other works is just another modality of integration

As an artist, I would be trying to build/train a model off of my own work to help speed up the creative process and work with AI to create unique images that I couldn't think of.

m463 3y ago

If you train on your own work, are you speeding up a creative process? Or more of a derivative process? Will you become more of yourself yesterday than yourself tomorrow?

skyyler 3y ago
What's the difference between a creative process or a derivative process? Aesthetics isn't just now grappling with the question of originality. This is an old conversation, people have been arguing that all creative work is technically derivative for (thousands of?) years.
- comfypotato 3y ago
  It’s analogous to the idea that there are no original thoughts (which is quickly obviously false). To the parent’s question: on some kind of margin I think it would lead to more derivative work, but the net effect would still be novel creative output by a human. (I read the original idea as using the model as inspiration as much as a producer.)
danielfoster 3y ago
Why not try this with your own art and see?
filoleg 3y ago
> Will you become more of yourself yesterday than yourself tomorrow? No, because using AI for providing you with a starting point material trained on your own work (that you've already done before manually), and then building an artwork on top of that manually without any AI will let you spend less time on things you've already done (aka you-yesterday) and focus more on creating new things you haven't done yet (you-tomorrow). Which is the whole point. Just because most visual art starts with basic shapes and builds everything on top of that doesn't make all that art "derivative" or "impeding your creative process". An analogy to writing code, even though it isn't the best analogy - rewriting boilerplate starter code manually for a new project (instead of reusing the starter boilerplate code you wrote before for a previous project), isn't going to make your new code "more derivative" or make you "more of yourself yesterday". Doing so will let you simply spend less time and energy on the samey boilerplate and will let you focus on your actual novel code instead.
- kevviiinn 3y ago
  That makes it sound like artist style doesn't evoke over time and that it isn't influenced by outside sources
  - filoleg 3y ago
    No, that wasn't my intent, and I felt like I articulated it well enough where it is obvious I didn't even imply that. Artist style evolves over time, and it is influenced by outside sources, I agree with you. That evolution of style and influence will show up just fine in the manual parts of the work the artist is doing (past the ai-generated "starter boilerplate")
    - kevviiinn 3y ago
      Using AI trained on other works is just another modality of integration