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Without an understanding of their motive, I think tying "google" to a person's mental health crisis is clickbait. Folks dealing with mental health issues might

Without an understanding of their motive, I think tying "google" to a person's mental health crisis is clickbait. Folks dealing with mental health issues might end their lives for a variety of factors. This is very sad to hear, but the headline (and article) that attempts to connect an employer to a person's death without any evidence is unfair. Note: I do not work for Google.

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protonimitate 3y ago
An employee of Google who jumped from the Google office is a pretty obvious connection. Don't really see how this is clickbait.
- Ferret7446 3y ago
  Their living in NYC is a more obvious connection, as there are studies showing that urban populations have significantly higher rates of mental disorders.
- woooooo 3y ago
  I don't think they'd have put Duane Reade in the headline if one of their employees killed themselves. Probably wouldn't be a story at all, actually.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - everly 3y ago
    If it happened on the job then, yeah, they probably would. Just like there is a Walgreens security guard in the news currently for killing a shoplifter in SF. If he had killed someone outside his capacity as a Walgreens security guard, they wouldn't describe him as such. If this engineer had killed themselves in another manner besides jumping off the top of their workplace, they might not be described as a Google engineer. Edit to add: Statistically, I suspect that there have to have been many instances of Google employees committing suicide outside of work. I doubt those got headlines at all, let alone headlines including Google's name.
- bhouston 3y ago
  Google employs 200,000 people. Suicide rate in the US is ~13 per 100,000 per year. This means there is an expected base rate of Google employees committing suicide per year regardless of working conditions that is likely higher than just 2. Maybe there is a real issue but two suicides within such large number of employees isn’t statistically significant. EDIT: I added "statistically" in the last sentence to clarify my intended meaning.
  - protonimitate 3y ago
    Suicide is tragic regardless of the circumstances, and it's a really bad take to try to minimize this because it's not statistically "significant" or "clickbait".
    - khazhoux 3y ago
      They weren't "minimizing." The point is that this article is trying to create a "Googlers are killing themselves" narrative, which is unwarranted.
      - protonimitate 3y ago
        There's nothing in the article (if you read it) that tries to paint that narrative. As far as NYP goes, it's actually pretty mild and factual. I don't understand why so many commenters here are jumping at the chance to defend poor little Google from the evils of bad journalism. Also how is > Maybe there is a real issue but two suicides within such large number of employees isn’t really significant. NOT minimizing?
        khazhoux 3y ago
        It's /mildly/ crafting the narrative in the very title... "second worker," which is implying "this is a pattern." Even the first word of the title is "Google." As for the minimizing, remember that on HN we aim to take the best possible interpretation of our fellow members' comments. I'll assume that the person who wrote "isn't really significant" isn't a heartless monster, and therefore what they meant what that "this didn't merit a Google-focused NYPost article."
- Jenk 3y ago
  Alternatively it is a high-up point from which to jump that the person(s) has easy access to.
- haswell 3y ago
  Why is this a pretty obvious connection vs. just the pragmatic reality of having access to the Google building? The factors that play into suicide are numerous, and there is no apparent reason that Google was a causal factor. This is also not to say that they aren’t, but to point out that speculation about this has zero standing.
  - ziziyO 3y ago
    A worker kills himself at work by jumping off a work building and you are here trying to tell me speculation about work being involved has zero standing? I don't buy it.
    - haswell 3y ago
      It has no more standing than speculating that the suicide was related to a failed relationship with a coworker. And even in that case, a failed relationship is not usually the cause of suicide, even if it's a precipitating factor. Causes generally tie back to systemic issues. Of all the ways one can die, suicide stems from the most deeply complex and systemic factors in one's life. To sit here and speculate about the cause with no information is irresponsible and I'd argue at the heart of what's wrong with social media today. For some reason people feel the need to have answers, even poorly considered speculation. I'd argue that it's far better to be willing to accept that there are times that require us to just withhold speculation until there's enough information to do so responsibly. Whatever the cause turns out to be, these early discussions are the last contact most people will have with the topic, meaning whatever speculations are shared are likely to be the primary memories of those involved. This community is quick to demand evidence and citations on most subjects (and rightly so), and this should be no different.
- bsimpson 3y ago
  Just like how people famously jump off the Golden Gate Bridge to protest bridges.
neom 3y ago
Well if it was a google employee who committed suicide at home, or off of the various many other places you could chose to kill yourself in Manhattan, I'd generally agree. This person however, jumped off their employers office building.
- deleted 3y ago
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- tempsy 3y ago
  there’s no indication it was an intentional jump. the article says no note or video and that they found handprints, meaning at some point this person was hanging on a ledge. so it is misleading to say he “jumped” if it ends up being an accidental fall. there’s plenty of people who climb ledges in NYC to take photos at night, so would not be surprised if this ends up being entirely accidental as a result of trying to take photos
  - neom 3y ago
    I've been through that building very many times. DigitalOcean NYC2 is there, I've had lunch/dinner/drinks there more times than I can count. You don't just "fall off" 111 8th.
    - tempsy 3y ago
      Yeah, and I mentioned that he could have purposefully climbed a ledge to take nighttime photos and tripped. I’ve seen dozens of “daredevil” skyline shots of NYC where people climb rooftops/bridges to take photos. Someone intentionally jumping does not “hang” on the side, they just jump.
      - sterlind 3y ago
        unless they have a change of heart? or maybe they're standing on the ledge trying to get up the courage to jump, and slip? a lot of people who attempt suicide immediately regret it (of the survivors.)
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dehrmann 3y ago
People also did this with Foxconn. Supposedly at Foxconn's scale, the suicide rate wasn't alarming, but with people living in dorms and having suicide nets set up, it looks bad.
- pengaru 3y ago
  It wasn't clear when I read that the rate wasn't alarming if they were comparing the Foxconn rate to the entire general population rate or just the employed general population rate. I think the difference is obvious.
  - dehrmann 3y ago
    It was very much Foxconn spinning it as to be expected. I have no idea how much to trust that.
- conradfr 3y ago
  There was also a big case in France https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50865211 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50865211
at_a_remove 3y ago
One of the statistical slights of hand of which I am rather unfond is gun deaths that don't mention that slightly more than half of them are suicides. This reminds me a bit of that. Google says that Alphabet had 190,234 employees in 2022. The annual age-adjusted suicide rate is 13.42 per 100,000 individuals. Males die by suicide 3.5 times more often than females. A real actuary (I wish I had known that was a profession!) could work the numbers better than I, but I don't think this is out of line on a statistical level, sad as it is to say.
okdood64 3y ago
> I think tying "google" to a person's mental health crisis is clickbait It's total clickbait and highlights the shameful narrative on HN and Reddit about "Mmm, Google bad." A guy just died and people are trying to push their own narrative without any sort of validity. Shameful and disgusting.

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protonimitate 3y ago

An employee of Google who jumped from the Google office is a pretty obvious connection. Don't really see how this is clickbait.

Ferret7446 3y ago
Their living in NYC is a more obvious connection, as there are studies showing that urban populations have significantly higher rates of mental disorders.
woooooo 3y ago
I don't think they'd have put Duane Reade in the headline if one of their employees killed themselves. Probably wouldn't be a story at all, actually.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- everly 3y ago
  If it happened on the job then, yeah, they probably would. Just like there is a Walgreens security guard in the news currently for killing a shoplifter in SF. If he had killed someone outside his capacity as a Walgreens security guard, they wouldn't describe him as such. If this engineer had killed themselves in another manner besides jumping off the top of their workplace, they might not be described as a Google engineer. Edit to add: Statistically, I suspect that there have to have been many instances of Google employees committing suicide outside of work. I doubt those got headlines at all, let alone headlines including Google's name.
bhouston 3y ago
Google employs 200,000 people. Suicide rate in the US is ~13 per 100,000 per year. This means there is an expected base rate of Google employees committing suicide per year regardless of working conditions that is likely higher than just 2. Maybe there is a real issue but two suicides within such large number of employees isn’t statistically significant. EDIT: I added "statistically" in the last sentence to clarify my intended meaning.
- protonimitate 3y ago
  Suicide is tragic regardless of the circumstances, and it's a really bad take to try to minimize this because it's not statistically "significant" or "clickbait".
  - khazhoux 3y ago
    They weren't "minimizing." The point is that this article is trying to create a "Googlers are killing themselves" narrative, which is unwarranted.
    - protonimitate 3y ago
      There's nothing in the article (if you read it) that tries to paint that narrative. As far as NYP goes, it's actually pretty mild and factual. I don't understand why so many commenters here are jumping at the chance to defend poor little Google from the evils of bad journalism. Also how is > Maybe there is a real issue but two suicides within such large number of employees isn’t really significant. NOT minimizing?
      - khazhoux 3y ago
        It's /mildly/ crafting the narrative in the very title... "second worker," which is implying "this is a pattern." Even the first word of the title is "Google." As for the minimizing, remember that on HN we aim to take the best possible interpretation of our fellow members' comments. I'll assume that the person who wrote "isn't really significant" isn't a heartless monster, and therefore what they meant what that "this didn't merit a Google-focused NYPost article."
Jenk 3y ago
Alternatively it is a high-up point from which to jump that the person(s) has easy access to.
haswell 3y ago
Why is this a pretty obvious connection vs. just the pragmatic reality of having access to the Google building? The factors that play into suicide are numerous, and there is no apparent reason that Google was a causal factor. This is also not to say that they aren’t, but to point out that speculation about this has zero standing.
- ziziyO 3y ago
  A worker kills himself at work by jumping off a work building and you are here trying to tell me speculation about work being involved has zero standing? I don't buy it.
  - haswell 3y ago
    It has no more standing than speculating that the suicide was related to a failed relationship with a coworker. And even in that case, a failed relationship is not usually the cause of suicide, even if it's a precipitating factor. Causes generally tie back to systemic issues. Of all the ways one can die, suicide stems from the most deeply complex and systemic factors in one's life. To sit here and speculate about the cause with no information is irresponsible and I'd argue at the heart of what's wrong with social media today. For some reason people feel the need to have answers, even poorly considered speculation. I'd argue that it's far better to be willing to accept that there are times that require us to just withhold speculation until there's enough information to do so responsibly. Whatever the cause turns out to be, these early discussions are the last contact most people will have with the topic, meaning whatever speculations are shared are likely to be the primary memories of those involved. This community is quick to demand evidence and citations on most subjects (and rightly so), and this should be no different.
bsimpson 3y ago
Just like how people famously jump off the Golden Gate Bridge to protest bridges.

neom 3y ago

Well if it was a google employee who committed suicide at home, or off of the various many other places you could chose to kill yourself in Manhattan, I'd generally agree. This person however, jumped off their employers office building.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tempsy 3y ago
there’s no indication it was an intentional jump. the article says no note or video and that they found handprints, meaning at some point this person was hanging on a ledge. so it is misleading to say he “jumped” if it ends up being an accidental fall. there’s plenty of people who climb ledges in NYC to take photos at night, so would not be surprised if this ends up being entirely accidental as a result of trying to take photos
- neom 3y ago
  I've been through that building very many times. DigitalOcean NYC2 is there, I've had lunch/dinner/drinks there more times than I can count. You don't just "fall off" 111 8th.
  - tempsy 3y ago
    Yeah, and I mentioned that he could have purposefully climbed a ledge to take nighttime photos and tripped. I’ve seen dozens of “daredevil” skyline shots of NYC where people climb rooftops/bridges to take photos. Someone intentionally jumping does not “hang” on the side, they just jump.
    - sterlind 3y ago
      unless they have a change of heart? or maybe they're standing on the ledge trying to get up the courage to jump, and slip? a lot of people who attempt suicide immediately regret it (of the survivors.)

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

dehrmann 3y ago

People also did this with Foxconn. Supposedly at Foxconn's scale, the suicide rate wasn't alarming, but with people living in dorms and having suicide nets set up, it looks bad.

pengaru 3y ago
It wasn't clear when I read that the rate wasn't alarming if they were comparing the Foxconn rate to the entire general population rate or just the employed general population rate. I think the difference is obvious.
- dehrmann 3y ago
  It was very much Foxconn spinning it as to be expected. I have no idea how much to trust that.
conradfr 3y ago
There was also a big case in France https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50865211 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50865211

at_a_remove 3y ago

One of the statistical slights of hand of which I am rather unfond is gun deaths that don't mention that slightly more than half of them are suicides. This reminds me a bit of that. Google says that Alphabet had 190,234 employees in 2022. The annual age-adjusted suicide rate is 13.42 per 100,000 individuals. Males die by suicide 3.5 times more often than females. A real actuary (I wish I had known that was a profession!) could work the numbers better than I, but I don't think this is out of line on a statistical level, sad as it is to say.

okdood64 3y ago

> I think tying "google" to a person's mental health crisis is clickbait It's total clickbait and highlights the shameful narrative on HN and Reddit about "Mmm, Google bad." A guy just died and people are trying to push their own narrative without any sort of validity. Shameful and disgusting.