5 ms·

If you hate tiktok, I get it —- I really do. But please just know that you’re missing out on something wonderful, unique, and delightful; in fact, delightful in

If you hate tiktok, I get it —- I really do. But please just know that you’re missing out on something wonderful, unique, and delightful; in fact, delightful in ways remarkably similar to the feeling that https://news.ycombinator.com/highlights https://news.ycombinator.com/highlights gives you. There’s a commonality between HN and TikTok that I haven’t yet been able to put into words. They’re both “bookish”. You feel like you’re exploring. Often times I’ll swipe past 6 or 7 memes in about 3 seconds, when something incredible catches my attention. And it’s often incredible in exactly the same way as HN: you feel like you’ve unearthed some fascinating gemstone. (And much like HN, it’s designed for entertainment, so you can waste arbitrary amounts of time if you fall under its spell too long.) I wrote a comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34573893 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34573893 showcasing the three lists I was particularly proud of: educational, physics, and math. But I have dozens more. There’s guitar tutorials, handyman repairs, a collection of 18 videos teaching you how to tie all kinds of useful knots, art tutorials, cute animals, hardcore ML discussions, and everything in between. Someday I’ll showcase them properly. (Theoretically you can view them on my TikTok profile, but I doubt it’s presented well: https://www.tiktok.com/@theshawwn https://www.tiktok.com/@theshawwn) Just know that if you stomp TikTok out of existence, it’ll be a real loss. It’ll feel to me like you’d feel if someone burned down HN. And the calls for banning TikTok sound to me how you’d feel if Reddit was urging everybody to ban HN. Now imagine that politicians are seriously considering whether to ban HN. That’s how it feels to read through the comments here about TikTok. The outrage is deserved and understandable, but it’ll be a real loss if it disappears. If this comment coaxes you into trying out TikTok, one tip: use the “not interested” button ruthlessly. (Long press on a video.) The algorithm will dial you in after around 45 minutes, which isn’t so long. The first experience can feel jarring the same way that YouTube in incognito mode looks like a weird dystopian universe filled with people screaming at each other.

celdon25 4y ago
I’m good, thanks.
icepat 4y ago
[flagged]
- crazygringo 4y ago
  I don't think ChatGPT is able to create links like that, such as to someone's own profile on another site. It doesn't read as ChatGPT at all, I took a look at his profile and that quote was clearly referring to his profile text only. I'm honestly getting sick of people here claiming a comment is ChatGPT spam when it's just a viewpoint they disagree with or something.
  - sillysaurusx 4y ago
    (I’m just delighted my profile is working exactly as intended. Hopefully my tombstone will engrave something that makes people question whether I was a real person.)
  - icepat 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - Kiro 4y ago
      [flagged]
- throwaway290 4y ago
  I remember reading sillysaurusx comments years way back before chatgpt and I reckon it is not the kind of person who would get into undermining the community by posting generated comments :shrug:
nathan_compton 4y ago
Even if you think HN and Tiktok are similar in content, your point here totally glosses over that one is a small community of people working on startups and is not monetized and does not employ a variety of psychological tools to keep you engaged (it actually has anti-engagement features!) and the other is an enormous, psychologically abusive, basically state-affiliated monetization machine that also collects a shit ton of data on a much larger group of people! Like I get it, you like TikTok, but don't pretend that the quality of the content is the thing under discussion here. That is a really weird thing to do.
- sillysaurusx 4y ago
  Hehe. I was on HN when it was around 50 users total. That was day two, just after pg made it public. That was small, and yo8 felt like you knew everyone. That feeling lasted for a couple years. But inevitably it went away. I didn’t mean the “hehe” against you, but rather a “I wish HN was small.” It was a magical era. Believe it or not, you are precisely as hypnotized by HN as you feel I am about TikTok. They’re both wonderfully entertaining titans.
  - nathan_compton 4y ago
    Again, extremely weird rhetoric. Even at its current size, Hackernews is orders of magnitude smaller and radically different economically, socially and politically. It is absolutely bizarre to compare the two in terms of content in the context of a discussion explicitly about TikTok's relationship with political and economic forces.
    - sillysaurusx 4y ago
      So what? What’s wrong with being a little weird, eh? All the best people are weirdos. If the idea that there are similarities is so unbelievable to you, then so be it. It says a lot more about you than about the comparison. Ah, there I go, letting the angry replies drag down my quality. Let’s see, what would pg say… It may feel surprising that there could be similarities. But it’s not as unlikely as you might think. It does however require an open mind, and a willingness to set aside the anger. If you’re determined to hate it, no words will change your mind.
crazygringo 4y ago
I don't use TikTok but I don't know why this is being downvoted. It seems reasonable to hear from people in order to understand the reason an app is popular. There is nothing downvote-worthy about this comment. I really appreciated reading this perspective, since pretty much all I ever hear are the reasons TikTok is bad.
- sillysaurusx 4y ago
  I was surprised too. But incendiary topics are often that way. All one can do is to try to be substantive and hope for the best. Thank you for sticking up for me, but remember: our goal here is to write comments interesting to read. As much as I appreciate it, complaints about downvotes never do any good. They just stoke the fire. Have a wonderful weekend, wherever you are. Cheers.
- jldugger 4y ago
  The framing was not great. "If you hate tik tok, just know that it has only wonderful qualities that are impossible to hate." You might as well be arguing that nobody should hate chocolate ice cream. --- If you hate chocolate ice cream, I get you. Just know that chocolate ice cream is one of the most popular ice cream flavors in the world, and for good reason. It's creamy, delicious, and versatile. But why is chocolate ice cream so good? Here are a few reasons: - Chocolate is a natural mood enhancer. Chocolate contains a compound called phenylethylamine, which is a stimulant that can boost your mood and make you feel happy. - Chocolate is a source of antioxidants. Antioxidants are substances that help protect your cells from damage. Dark chocolate is a particularly good source of antioxidants. - Chocolate is a source of calcium. Calcium is an important mineral for strong bones and teeth. - Chocolate is a source of protein. Protein is essential for building and repairing tissues. - Chocolate is a source of fiber. Fiber is important for digestive health. In addition to all of these health benefits, chocolate ice cream is simply delicious. It's the perfect treat to enjoy on a hot day or to satisfy a sweet tooth. So next time you're in the mood for something sweet, reach for a bowl of chocolate ice cream. You won't be disappointed. So what are you waiting for? Go out and buy a tub of chocolate ice cream today!
  - 4y ago
zaphar 4y ago
I don't hate tiktok. I don't hate it's business model or the product, per se. I just don't trust any company with strong ties to China and the CCP. When a company has those ties it changes from a question of whether you trust the company to whether you trust the CCP. And I most emphatically do not trust the CCP. The intentions and desires of the people running the company are irrelevant. The CCP has absolutely no problems violating those intentions or desires. There is no world where you can live in relationship to the CCP and not have your reputation permanently entangled with theirs. If HN was controlled by the CCP I would have the exact same concerns and wouldn't be using the platform. The CCP doesn't care how useful, delightful, unique, or wonderful your product is. They only care about whether they can leverage it usefully in some way.
fzeroracer 4y ago
No. Comparing TikTok to HN is flatly wrong.
drc500free 4y ago
I tried TikTok for a few hours. It became clear really quickly that they have completely disrupted instagram and snap. The UX is much more communal and interactive than either of those, the algorithm lands you on your interests faster, and they have massively reduced the friction around becoming a content creator rather than just a consumer - so there's simply more STUFF there. The videos are more ephemeral and imperfect than what you usually see on IG, and there's a lot more joy in what's being captured. It really is a step change in the ability to build communities around shared interests. Behind the scenes, it's a privacy nightmare and I understand the national security concerns that go with PRC tapping directly into the id of our electorate. I think PRC is much more skilled and subtle about online manipulation than Russia is. (I was working on media monitoring when social media became strangely fixated on trade deals for just long enough to get US involvement in TPP killed - a framework that was only significantly different from other trade deals in that it would sideline PRC. Once both candidates came out against it, popular concern over trade deal nuances disappeared and never returned) But the hysteria is driven just as much by SV tech knowing that they've been lapped and finding common ground with congress for purely anti-competitive reasons, as it is by the government trying to thread the needle between free speech and ceding ground to adversary information ops.
- schimmy_changa 4y ago
  > The videos are more ephemeral and imperfect than what you usually see on IG, and there's a lot more joy in what's being captured. It really is a step change in the ability to build communities around shared interests. ... so far. But with any technology it seems that, once the attention goes towards something, money and polish and 'Moloch' take over and the magic of amateurs and the joy of discovery are lessened. Perhaps TikTok will be different, however! It's not inevitable, but just a trend I've noticed.
  - elijaht 4y ago
    To be fair TikTok has been in the mainstream for a couple of years (if not more), and still gives that feeling. A lot around that seems to be due to the algorithm doing a better job of sharing non-high profile accounts (seeding videos with a few hundred views, even if the account is new). The polish/money/influencers are there, but seems to coexist/not take over better.
ericmcer 4y ago
Sounds terrible, swiping through memes rapid fire until I find something that hooks me is textbook addictive behavior and I know it will lead me to have poor focus and anxiety in other parts of life. The videos where you "learn" something are extra insidious because they convince you that it is a positive use of your time. The reality is you will forget 90% of it, it is formatted to be entertaining and not educational, and many are outright BS.
- sillysaurusx 4y ago
  And yet, you swipe through 30 HN stories a day. The insidious part is that you think it’s a positive use of your time, or that you learn anything. You’ll forget most of it, and ultimately it’s just entertainment. If you’re quick to point out all the reasons I’m mistaken, well… take all of those reasons, put them in a paint bucket labeled “tiktok”, and give it a stir till you can’t see the difference. Because as a three year TikTok user, I can’t. We’re all addicts. It’s a matter of choosing your addictions wisely, and not letting their downsides outweigh their merits. Discipline tends to be the cure, though that never works for me; the only way out is to find a fascinating problem to go work on. Make no mistake: the average TikTok viewer is a lot closer to the average HN reader in terms of addictive behaviors than we’d care to admit. All of the reasons you keep coming back are addictions in disguise. And if this argument sounds out of place, there’s a way out: it’s fine to be addicted to learning new things.
  - ericmcer 4y ago
    I refuse to believe you can't tell the difference between TikTok and HN. Just take your argument all the way and say that reading a book is the same thing as using TikTok. Hard Disagree.
    - sillysaurusx 4y ago
      Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35837751 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35837751 upthread. I wanted to give you a solid reply to this, so I put a lot of effort into it. Perhaps it’s still insufficient, but it’s closer.
stale2002 4y ago
TikTok isn't actually going to be banned. What is going to happen, is that even if a ban goes through, they will end up just selling the US/international app to a US company, then that company will be completely separated from bytedance. This almost happened during the Trump administration. And this would be a positive result. We get to keep TikTok, and all it's "benefits", while the national security concerns are solved because it would be US owned, and no longer beholden to a foreign adversary.
thenayr 4y ago
[dead]
BLKNSLVR 4y ago
It will only cost you the entirety of your online privacy, but you're telling us it's worth it?
- ShinTakuya 4y ago
  Google and Apple already have a huge amount of info on me that is almost certainly being shared with the US government. What's the diff between that and TikTok sharing my info with China?
  - BLKNSLVR 4y ago
    Fewer leaks are always better than more. I understand what you're saying though. But I think the answer should be to work harder at blocking Google and Apple, rather than capitulating to <new thing>.

celdon25 4y ago

I’m good, thanks.

icepat 4y ago

[flagged]

crazygringo 4y ago
I don't think ChatGPT is able to create links like that, such as to someone's own profile on another site. It doesn't read as ChatGPT at all, I took a look at his profile and that quote was clearly referring to his profile text only. I'm honestly getting sick of people here claiming a comment is ChatGPT spam when it's just a viewpoint they disagree with or something.
- sillysaurusx 4y ago
  (I’m just delighted my profile is working exactly as intended. Hopefully my tombstone will engrave something that makes people question whether I was a real person.)
- icepat 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - Kiro 4y ago
    [flagged]
throwaway290 4y ago
I remember reading sillysaurusx comments years way back before chatgpt and I reckon it is not the kind of person who would get into undermining the community by posting generated comments :shrug:

nathan_compton 4y ago

Even if you think HN and Tiktok are similar in content, your point here totally glosses over that one is a small community of people working on startups and is not monetized and does not employ a variety of psychological tools to keep you engaged (it actually has anti-engagement features!) and the other is an enormous, psychologically abusive, basically state-affiliated monetization machine that also collects a shit ton of data on a much larger group of people! Like I get it, you like TikTok, but don't pretend that the quality of the content is the thing under discussion here. That is a really weird thing to do.

sillysaurusx 4y ago
Hehe. I was on HN when it was around 50 users total. That was day two, just after pg made it public. That was small, and yo8 felt like you knew everyone. That feeling lasted for a couple years. But inevitably it went away. I didn’t mean the “hehe” against you, but rather a “I wish HN was small.” It was a magical era. Believe it or not, you are precisely as hypnotized by HN as you feel I am about TikTok. They’re both wonderfully entertaining titans.
- nathan_compton 4y ago
  Again, extremely weird rhetoric. Even at its current size, Hackernews is orders of magnitude smaller and radically different economically, socially and politically. It is absolutely bizarre to compare the two in terms of content in the context of a discussion explicitly about TikTok's relationship with political and economic forces.
  - sillysaurusx 4y ago
    So what? What’s wrong with being a little weird, eh? All the best people are weirdos. If the idea that there are similarities is so unbelievable to you, then so be it. It says a lot more about you than about the comparison. Ah, there I go, letting the angry replies drag down my quality. Let’s see, what would pg say… It may feel surprising that there could be similarities. But it’s not as unlikely as you might think. It does however require an open mind, and a willingness to set aside the anger. If you’re determined to hate it, no words will change your mind.

crazygringo 4y ago

I don't use TikTok but I don't know why this is being downvoted. It seems reasonable to hear from people in order to understand the reason an app is popular. There is nothing downvote-worthy about this comment. I really appreciated reading this perspective, since pretty much all I ever hear are the reasons TikTok is bad.

sillysaurusx 4y ago
I was surprised too. But incendiary topics are often that way. All one can do is to try to be substantive and hope for the best. Thank you for sticking up for me, but remember: our goal here is to write comments interesting to read. As much as I appreciate it, complaints about downvotes never do any good. They just stoke the fire. Have a wonderful weekend, wherever you are. Cheers.
jldugger 4y ago
The framing was not great. "If you hate tik tok, just know that it has only wonderful qualities that are impossible to hate." You might as well be arguing that nobody should hate chocolate ice cream. --- If you hate chocolate ice cream, I get you. Just know that chocolate ice cream is one of the most popular ice cream flavors in the world, and for good reason. It's creamy, delicious, and versatile. But why is chocolate ice cream so good? Here are a few reasons: - Chocolate is a natural mood enhancer. Chocolate contains a compound called phenylethylamine, which is a stimulant that can boost your mood and make you feel happy. - Chocolate is a source of antioxidants. Antioxidants are substances that help protect your cells from damage. Dark chocolate is a particularly good source of antioxidants. - Chocolate is a source of calcium. Calcium is an important mineral for strong bones and teeth. - Chocolate is a source of protein. Protein is essential for building and repairing tissues. - Chocolate is a source of fiber. Fiber is important for digestive health. In addition to all of these health benefits, chocolate ice cream is simply delicious. It's the perfect treat to enjoy on a hot day or to satisfy a sweet tooth. So next time you're in the mood for something sweet, reach for a bowl of chocolate ice cream. You won't be disappointed. So what are you waiting for? Go out and buy a tub of chocolate ice cream today!
- 4y ago

zaphar 4y ago

I don't hate tiktok. I don't hate it's business model or the product, per se. I just don't trust any company with strong ties to China and the CCP. When a company has those ties it changes from a question of whether you trust the company to whether you trust the CCP. And I most emphatically do not trust the CCP. The intentions and desires of the people running the company are irrelevant. The CCP has absolutely no problems violating those intentions or desires. There is no world where you can live in relationship to the CCP and not have your reputation permanently entangled with theirs. If HN was controlled by the CCP I would have the exact same concerns and wouldn't be using the platform. The CCP doesn't care how useful, delightful, unique, or wonderful your product is. They only care about whether they can leverage it usefully in some way.

fzeroracer 4y ago

No. Comparing TikTok to HN is flatly wrong.

drc500free 4y ago

I tried TikTok for a few hours. It became clear really quickly that they have completely disrupted instagram and snap. The UX is much more communal and interactive than either of those, the algorithm lands you on your interests faster, and they have massively reduced the friction around becoming a content creator rather than just a consumer - so there's simply more STUFF there. The videos are more ephemeral and imperfect than what you usually see on IG, and there's a lot more joy in what's being captured. It really is a step change in the ability to build communities around shared interests. Behind the scenes, it's a privacy nightmare and I understand the national security concerns that go with PRC tapping directly into the id of our electorate. I think PRC is much more skilled and subtle about online manipulation than Russia is. (I was working on media monitoring when social media became strangely fixated on trade deals for just long enough to get US involvement in TPP killed - a framework that was only significantly different from other trade deals in that it would sideline PRC. Once both candidates came out against it, popular concern over trade deal nuances disappeared and never returned) But the hysteria is driven just as much by SV tech knowing that they've been lapped and finding common ground with congress for purely anti-competitive reasons, as it is by the government trying to thread the needle between free speech and ceding ground to adversary information ops.

schimmy_changa 4y ago
> The videos are more ephemeral and imperfect than what you usually see on IG, and there's a lot more joy in what's being captured. It really is a step change in the ability to build communities around shared interests. ... so far. But with any technology it seems that, once the attention goes towards something, money and polish and 'Moloch' take over and the magic of amateurs and the joy of discovery are lessened. Perhaps TikTok will be different, however! It's not inevitable, but just a trend I've noticed.
- elijaht 4y ago
  To be fair TikTok has been in the mainstream for a couple of years (if not more), and still gives that feeling. A lot around that seems to be due to the algorithm doing a better job of sharing non-high profile accounts (seeding videos with a few hundred views, even if the account is new). The polish/money/influencers are there, but seems to coexist/not take over better.

ericmcer 4y ago

Sounds terrible, swiping through memes rapid fire until I find something that hooks me is textbook addictive behavior and I know it will lead me to have poor focus and anxiety in other parts of life. The videos where you "learn" something are extra insidious because they convince you that it is a positive use of your time. The reality is you will forget 90% of it, it is formatted to be entertaining and not educational, and many are outright BS.

sillysaurusx 4y ago
And yet, you swipe through 30 HN stories a day. The insidious part is that you think it’s a positive use of your time, or that you learn anything. You’ll forget most of it, and ultimately it’s just entertainment. If you’re quick to point out all the reasons I’m mistaken, well… take all of those reasons, put them in a paint bucket labeled “tiktok”, and give it a stir till you can’t see the difference. Because as a three year TikTok user, I can’t. We’re all addicts. It’s a matter of choosing your addictions wisely, and not letting their downsides outweigh their merits. Discipline tends to be the cure, though that never works for me; the only way out is to find a fascinating problem to go work on. Make no mistake: the average TikTok viewer is a lot closer to the average HN reader in terms of addictive behaviors than we’d care to admit. All of the reasons you keep coming back are addictions in disguise. And if this argument sounds out of place, there’s a way out: it’s fine to be addicted to learning new things.
- ericmcer 4y ago
  I refuse to believe you can't tell the difference between TikTok and HN. Just take your argument all the way and say that reading a book is the same thing as using TikTok. Hard Disagree.
  - sillysaurusx 4y ago
    Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35837751 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35837751 upthread. I wanted to give you a solid reply to this, so I put a lot of effort into it. Perhaps it’s still insufficient, but it’s closer.

stale2002 4y ago

TikTok isn't actually going to be banned. What is going to happen, is that even if a ban goes through, they will end up just selling the US/international app to a US company, then that company will be completely separated from bytedance. This almost happened during the Trump administration. And this would be a positive result. We get to keep TikTok, and all it's "benefits", while the national security concerns are solved because it would be US owned, and no longer beholden to a foreign adversary.

thenayr 4y ago

[dead]

BLKNSLVR 4y ago

It will only cost you the entirety of your online privacy, but you're telling us it's worth it?

ShinTakuya 4y ago
Google and Apple already have a huge amount of info on me that is almost certainly being shared with the US government. What's the diff between that and TikTok sharing my info with China?
- BLKNSLVR 4y ago
  Fewer leaks are always better than more. I understand what you're saying though. But I think the answer should be to work harder at blocking Google and Apple, rather than capitulating to <new thing>.