4 ms·

Are you kidding me? They're precisely derivative.

tshaddox 3y ago
I’m not kidding, and I don’t quite know what you mean. The progressions start with the same 3 chords, but that (and the fact that both progressions have significantly influenced pop music) is pretty much the extent of the similarities. The biggest difference is that the Canon in D progression is an 8 bar loop, and the second 4 bars is a subdominant progression, which leads to a lot of different melodic options than a single 4 bar loop.
- Maursault 3y ago
  > and I don’t quite know what you mean. ... the fact that both progressions have significantly influenced pop music) is pretty much the extent of the similarities. The progression of the Canon is I-V-vi-iii-IV-I-IV-V, but I-V-vi-III-IV-I-IV-V and I-V-vi-iii-IV-I-II-V. and I-V-vi-III are the same progressions, and any progression in 4/4 beginning with I-V-vi-x no matter what the last chord is, is the same progression. Here's a popular song with the exact same changes transposed to G Major instead of D Major.[1] Here are 20 more of them.[2] (Watch the full video to understand why you are completely mistaken — i.e. why your analysis and objections are wrong, and why your nitpicking unsupportable). Axis of Comedy only used the first four chords of the progression for simplicity's sake, but all of those songs are identical or near enough to the Canon to either be considered the same or derivative. No one rational would consider changes novel because they changed one of three or one of eight roots from minor to major, nor would they consider changes novel because they only used the first four roots of the Canon progression. You are either trolling or have something wrong with your ears. Your argument isn't even pedantry because it is factually incorrect. Please find something else to do. [1] https://www.guitardownunder.com/songs/memories.php https://www.guitardownunder.com/songs/memories.php [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PC6jwoHyOk&t=0m52s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PC6jwoHyOk&t=0m52s
  - tshaddox 3y ago
    I’m very aware of both progressions and how common they both are in popular music. But it’s not at all the case that Axis of Comedy “just took the first four chords of the progression for simplicity’s sake.” Only the first 3 chords are shared, and the fourth chords have very different harmonic functions and are not at all interchangeable. I’m not sure if you’re just making a clerical error by missing the fact that the fourth chords are different, since you even typed out the Canon in D chords in your previous comment, but I assure you the fourth chords are quite different. The progressions are nothing close to identical or interchangeable or “derivative of each other.” Not that it matters, but I’m quite sure David Bennett (I’m guessing you’re a fan) would settle this disagreement in my favor. Edit: okay, I just saw your edit > are the same progressions, and any progression in 4/4 beginning with I-V-vi-x no matter what the last chord is, is the same. I’m gathering that you saw the section of the David Bennett video about variations and somehow made the mistaken leap that it’s “the same progression” regardless of what the fourth chord is. This is certainly not the case. Note that in all those variations you pasted, the fourth chord is the third scale degree. You cannot conclude therefore that the fourth chord doesn’t matter at all and doesn’t affect the nature of the progression.
    - Maursault 3y ago
      Your argument is not persuasive. The reason why is neatly explained in the video I linked. > it’s “the same progression” regardless of what the fourth chord is. This is certainly not the case. Yes, yes it is. Watch the video. Absorb it. These are not two distinct progressions, they are the same. What you are arguing is that a variant of one progression is not the same progression, and you are mistaken.
      - tshaddox 3y ago
        The video is discussing very elementary music theory. I understand it. You’re misunderstanding it. It doesn’t say what you think it says. I am arguing that the Axis progression is not a variation of the Canon in D progression, or vice versa. They are two separate progressions that share very little in common except the first 3 chords and a large influence in pop music. The video you posted does not say otherwise.

I’m not kidding, and I don’t quite know what you mean. The progressions start with the same 3 chords, but that (and the fact that both progressions have significantly influenced pop music) is pretty much the extent of the similarities. The biggest difference is that the Canon in D progression is an 8 bar loop, and the second 4 bars is a subdominant progression, which leads to a lot of different melodic options than a single 4 bar loop.

Maursault 3y ago
> and I don’t quite know what you mean. ... the fact that both progressions have significantly influenced pop music) is pretty much the extent of the similarities. The progression of the Canon is I-V-vi-iii-IV-I-IV-V, but I-V-vi-III-IV-I-IV-V and I-V-vi-iii-IV-I-II-V. and I-V-vi-III are the same progressions, and any progression in 4/4 beginning with I-V-vi-x no matter what the last chord is, is the same progression. Here's a popular song with the exact same changes transposed to G Major instead of D Major.[1] Here are 20 more of them.[2] (Watch the full video to understand why you are completely mistaken — i.e. why your analysis and objections are wrong, and why your nitpicking unsupportable). Axis of Comedy only used the first four chords of the progression for simplicity's sake, but all of those songs are identical or near enough to the Canon to either be considered the same or derivative. No one rational would consider changes novel because they changed one of three or one of eight roots from minor to major, nor would they consider changes novel because they only used the first four roots of the Canon progression. You are either trolling or have something wrong with your ears. Your argument isn't even pedantry because it is factually incorrect. Please find something else to do. [1] https://www.guitardownunder.com/songs/memories.php https://www.guitardownunder.com/songs/memories.php [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PC6jwoHyOk&t=0m52s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PC6jwoHyOk&t=0m52s
- tshaddox 3y ago
  I’m very aware of both progressions and how common they both are in popular music. But it’s not at all the case that Axis of Comedy “just took the first four chords of the progression for simplicity’s sake.” Only the first 3 chords are shared, and the fourth chords have very different harmonic functions and are not at all interchangeable. I’m not sure if you’re just making a clerical error by missing the fact that the fourth chords are different, since you even typed out the Canon in D chords in your previous comment, but I assure you the fourth chords are quite different. The progressions are nothing close to identical or interchangeable or “derivative of each other.” Not that it matters, but I’m quite sure David Bennett (I’m guessing you’re a fan) would settle this disagreement in my favor. Edit: okay, I just saw your edit > are the same progressions, and any progression in 4/4 beginning with I-V-vi-x no matter what the last chord is, is the same. I’m gathering that you saw the section of the David Bennett video about variations and somehow made the mistaken leap that it’s “the same progression” regardless of what the fourth chord is. This is certainly not the case. Note that in all those variations you pasted, the fourth chord is the third scale degree. You cannot conclude therefore that the fourth chord doesn’t matter at all and doesn’t affect the nature of the progression.
  - Maursault 3y ago
    Your argument is not persuasive. The reason why is neatly explained in the video I linked. > it’s “the same progression” regardless of what the fourth chord is. This is certainly not the case. Yes, yes it is. Watch the video. Absorb it. These are not two distinct progressions, they are the same. What you are arguing is that a variant of one progression is not the same progression, and you are mistaken.
    - tshaddox 3y ago
      The video is discussing very elementary music theory. I understand it. You’re misunderstanding it. It doesn’t say what you think it says. I am arguing that the Axis progression is not a variation of the Canon in D progression, or vice versa. They are two separate progressions that share very little in common except the first 3 chords and a large influence in pop music. The video you posted does not say otherwise.