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> Apparently a lot of US business sites refuse to connect from oversea IP because (...) they just don't want to deal with it I am French. What I find fascinati

> Apparently a lot of US business sites refuse to connect from oversea IP because (...) they just don't want to deal with it I am French. What I find fascinating is that there are local US newspapers (that server a tiny community) that went through the effort to do a geoblock from the EU and put a page along the lines "we cannot be compliant to Privacy laws in the EU so we must block you". Why do they care at all? How is the EU law relevant to their small, local business? Large companies are different - there could be some litigation against their footprint in the EU etc. - but for thosewho just live in the US (or anywhere outside the EU) going the extra mile to block because of non compliance is really weird.

wkearney99 4y ago
They care because no matter how small with travel and such these days there are potential risks if they're 'found' to be non-compliant. Simpler to say "no, we can't comply" than spend time/money/risk fighting about it later. Not that I disagree with you on the 'it seems stupid' front. But that doesn't change the risk profile for the company.
mattsan 4y ago
I'm sure there are still some people willing to report the websites to EU commission, it's a guaranteed fine (less so a paycheque, I have no clue if the company has to comply with paying it (unless later on they want to expand to the EU))
- BrandoElFollito 4y ago
  This is a fine that the EU can issue but why would the local business care? If I was issued a fine by the US, China, India or Japan it would directly go to the trashbin. It is their law, and their problem, not mine. Of course this means that I will not be able to do business there, if I travel I may be in trouble etc. But again - we are talking about small local newspapers (and similar businesses).
  - mattsan 4y ago
    Yep, hence why I mentioned this would only be a problem if they ever want to do business with the EU
  - ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
    between the options of: A. [re-]architect in in GDPR compliance; B. deal with incoming legal documents, likely can't just discard; C. block country representing tiny share of viewership, option C seems to present the least hassle
    - BrandoElFollito 4y ago
      Option D: ask a local lawyer once (100 USD or so) and they will confirm that the business can trash such foreign requests and be done. Not sure whether C or D would be more complicated long term (you need to manage the geoloc somehow, or outsource and pay for the service)
      - lxgr 4y ago
        Additionally, it shows traveling US-based customers that you care about them.
mgbmtl 4y ago
Most small local newspapers are owned by huge megacorps. GDPR EU laws and some others explicitly say that they can be enforced to entities outside the EU. I don't know if it has ever been enforced, except for large multinationals. The US does do that kind of thing though. As a dev, break some law, step foot in the US for a conference, get arrested (ex: Sklyarov 2001 case, for breaking PDF encryption). Although for most financial things, it's common in US/CA to block non-local IPs. Heck, I was in Mexico and I couldn't login to my provincial government tax portal. There are constant security issues with those sites.
- BrandoElFollito 4y ago
  > GDPR EU laws and some others explicitly say that they can be enforced to entities outside the EU They can tell whatever they want, but it would need to be a US court (in that case) who would do the litigation. Which they won't. > The US does do that kind of thing though. As a dev, break some law, step foot in the US for a conference, get arrested yes, this is why I mentioned that my point is only for local businesses. Travel or business in the EU can/will be problematic. > Heck, I was in Mexico and I couldn't login to my provincial government tax portal. There are constant security issues with those sites. Blocking for security is another thing. Maybe a good idea, maybe not - but that's another story.
  - lxgr 4y ago
    > They can tell whatever they want, but it would need to be a US court (in that case) who would do the litigation. Which they won't. That's a pretty incomplete view of how jurisdiction works. You do probably need a US court ruling to enforce a claim against a US entity – but if that entity has any EU subsidiaries or assets, you can bet that European courts will come after those. > Blocking for security is another thing. Maybe a good idea, maybe not - but that's another story. As a customer/taxpayer that needs access to a service from abroad, I really don't care why I have to jump through hoops to cancel a subscription/order or pay my taxes owed.
    - BrandoElFollito 4y ago
cronix 4y ago
It's just a lot simpler to block than having to keep up with laws in other countries for businesses who don't even do business in those countries. It's not like it's hard or time consuming to implement, and cheaper than your other suggestion further down of consulting a lawyer every time one of these pops up, like "do I have to annoy my customers with these stupid cookie popups every time they visit?" Why should I have to spend a dime for something that is external to my company, has nothing to do with it, and have to constantly keep on top of it? We don't even sell our services there. Why should I even waste the bandwidth? Our firewalls are sure a lot less active, as well. Why should I waste time answering emails from people we don't sell to? It's better to just not get them. I guess my question to you is why do YOU care if they're accessible or not? If a (local) business really just wants to sell within their own (local) country (or even smaller municipality such as state/county/city), is there something wrong with blocking everything outside it out and just not worrying about it?
- BrandoElFollito 4y ago
  > It's just a lot simpler to block than having to keep up with laws in other countries for businesses who don't even do business in those countries. Exactly, except that it is just simpler to do nothing. Do you (I assume you are not in either of the countries I give an examples, nor travel there) worry about laws in, say, China when you state "Taiwan is an independent country", or Russia when you say "Russia invaded Ukraine", or North Korea when you say "NK is a tyranny", or France when you say "Retirement should be at 60 and not 64". No. Because the local laws that forbid these statements are, well, local. Nobody cares outside of these countries. They could send you letters informing that you did wrong and that you have to pay 1M USD and you would just put that to trash. > I guess my question to you is why do YOU care if they're accessible or not? If a (local) business really just wants to sell within their own (local) country (or even smaller municipality such as state/county/city), is there something wrong with blocking everything outside it out and just not worrying about it? I do not care - it is just that I ended serendipitously on a few of these places and was wondering why they care (I would not care about the cookie law in Zimbabwe or Patagonia if I had a web site).
  - 4y ago

wkearney99 4y ago

They care because no matter how small with travel and such these days there are potential risks if they're 'found' to be non-compliant. Simpler to say "no, we can't comply" than spend time/money/risk fighting about it later. Not that I disagree with you on the 'it seems stupid' front. But that doesn't change the risk profile for the company.

mattsan 4y ago

I'm sure there are still some people willing to report the websites to EU commission, it's a guaranteed fine (less so a paycheque, I have no clue if the company has to comply with paying it (unless later on they want to expand to the EU))

BrandoElFollito 4y ago
This is a fine that the EU can issue but why would the local business care? If I was issued a fine by the US, China, India or Japan it would directly go to the trashbin. It is their law, and their problem, not mine. Of course this means that I will not be able to do business there, if I travel I may be in trouble etc. But again - we are talking about small local newspapers (and similar businesses).
- mattsan 4y ago
  Yep, hence why I mentioned this would only be a problem if they ever want to do business with the EU
- ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
  between the options of: A. [re-]architect in in GDPR compliance; B. deal with incoming legal documents, likely can't just discard; C. block country representing tiny share of viewership, option C seems to present the least hassle
  - BrandoElFollito 4y ago
    Option D: ask a local lawyer once (100 USD or so) and they will confirm that the business can trash such foreign requests and be done. Not sure whether C or D would be more complicated long term (you need to manage the geoloc somehow, or outsource and pay for the service)
    - lxgr 4y ago
      Additionally, it shows traveling US-based customers that you care about them.

mgbmtl 4y ago

Most small local newspapers are owned by huge megacorps. GDPR EU laws and some others explicitly say that they can be enforced to entities outside the EU. I don't know if it has ever been enforced, except for large multinationals. The US does do that kind of thing though. As a dev, break some law, step foot in the US for a conference, get arrested (ex: Sklyarov 2001 case, for breaking PDF encryption). Although for most financial things, it's common in US/CA to block non-local IPs. Heck, I was in Mexico and I couldn't login to my provincial government tax portal. There are constant security issues with those sites.

BrandoElFollito 4y ago
> GDPR EU laws and some others explicitly say that they can be enforced to entities outside the EU They can tell whatever they want, but it would need to be a US court (in that case) who would do the litigation. Which they won't. > The US does do that kind of thing though. As a dev, break some law, step foot in the US for a conference, get arrested yes, this is why I mentioned that my point is only for local businesses. Travel or business in the EU can/will be problematic. > Heck, I was in Mexico and I couldn't login to my provincial government tax portal. There are constant security issues with those sites. Blocking for security is another thing. Maybe a good idea, maybe not - but that's another story.
- lxgr 4y ago
  > They can tell whatever they want, but it would need to be a US court (in that case) who would do the litigation. Which they won't. That's a pretty incomplete view of how jurisdiction works. You do probably need a US court ruling to enforce a claim against a US entity – but if that entity has any EU subsidiaries or assets, you can bet that European courts will come after those. > Blocking for security is another thing. Maybe a good idea, maybe not - but that's another story. As a customer/taxpayer that needs access to a service from abroad, I really don't care why I have to jump through hoops to cancel a subscription/order or pay my taxes owed.
  - BrandoElFollito 4y ago

cronix 4y ago

It's just a lot simpler to block than having to keep up with laws in other countries for businesses who don't even do business in those countries. It's not like it's hard or time consuming to implement, and cheaper than your other suggestion further down of consulting a lawyer every time one of these pops up, like "do I have to annoy my customers with these stupid cookie popups every time they visit?" Why should I have to spend a dime for something that is external to my company, has nothing to do with it, and have to constantly keep on top of it? We don't even sell our services there. Why should I even waste the bandwidth? Our firewalls are sure a lot less active, as well. Why should I waste time answering emails from people we don't sell to? It's better to just not get them. I guess my question to you is why do YOU care if they're accessible or not? If a (local) business really just wants to sell within their own (local) country (or even smaller municipality such as state/county/city), is there something wrong with blocking everything outside it out and just not worrying about it?

BrandoElFollito 4y ago
> It's just a lot simpler to block than having to keep up with laws in other countries for businesses who don't even do business in those countries. Exactly, except that it is just simpler to do nothing. Do you (I assume you are not in either of the countries I give an examples, nor travel there) worry about laws in, say, China when you state "Taiwan is an independent country", or Russia when you say "Russia invaded Ukraine", or North Korea when you say "NK is a tyranny", or France when you say "Retirement should be at 60 and not 64". No. Because the local laws that forbid these statements are, well, local. Nobody cares outside of these countries. They could send you letters informing that you did wrong and that you have to pay 1M USD and you would just put that to trash. > I guess my question to you is why do YOU care if they're accessible or not? If a (local) business really just wants to sell within their own (local) country (or even smaller municipality such as state/county/city), is there something wrong with blocking everything outside it out and just not worrying about it? I do not care - it is just that I ended serendipitously on a few of these places and was wondering why they care (I would not care about the cookie law in Zimbabwe or Patagonia if I had a web site).
- 4y ago