6 ms·

So what was a global contagion that affected several lives, businesses, and introduced trillions in debt is no longer an emergency? I would expect a big post-mo

by 1-6 3y ago

So what was a global contagion that affected several lives, businesses, and introduced trillions in debt is no longer an emergency? I would expect a big post-mortem to be done on such a destructive force if it's in the rearview mirror.

Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
It's too easy to predict what those post-mortems would look like. The right will claim we destroyed businesses and created trillions in debt, and yet still millions died, so the monetary losses were pointless, and therefore we shouldn't shut everything down at the next pandemic. The left will claim that the shut downs didn't go far enough, and so we still had millions dead, and therefore we need to shut down even harder and for longer to save lives.
- lesuorac 3y ago
  I do wonder what could've been done better. I think trivially a pandemic response team might not be disbanded right before a pandemic. But I flew a lot in late 2019 / early 2020 and there were signs everywhere in terminals about did you recently fly to China? So clearly the threat was well known and communicated to "decision makers"; what would a pandemic team have done differently? Moderna was in clinic trials in March [1] thats over a month before USA's Operation Warp Speed [2]. I'm not sure they could've sped up vaccine development that much. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moderna#COVID-19_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moderna#COVID-19_vaccine [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed
- thebruce87m 3y ago
  I see a lot on the right still denying anyone died at all from covid. My friend still says lockdowns actually killed the people, despite some countries with lockdowns having no excess mortality at all.
MisterSandman 3y ago
WHO is the World Health Organization, they don't consider economic and capitalistic impacts when assigning status to contagions.
GuB-42 3y ago
I don't really get the meaning of debt on a global scale. If I have have $1, it means someone owes $1. That's what money is. On a global scale, money is worthless, it only has meaning on a local scale, as a way to keep tabs on who owes what. So an increase on global debt can mean that there is more money in circulation, i.e. inflation, essentially a tax collected by those who print money. But inflation was rather low during the pandemic, so probably not that. If it is not inflation, then it means that more people owe more to other people. So, more interdependence. I wonder if it is a good or a bad thing. Probably both.
- atlantic 3y ago
  Interesting perspective. How about the fact that money is owed across time - by present generations to future ones? Viewed in that sense, debt surely remains impactful, even if considered on a global scale.
- anononaut 3y ago
  You're missing the most defining feature of fiat currency: If you have $1, it means someone owes $1 plus interest. It's a particularly profound distinction and one that should alter your rationalizations and conclusions. On a global scale, it isn't meaningless.

by 1-6 3y ago

Sohcahtoa82 3y ago

It's too easy to predict what those post-mortems would look like. The right will claim we destroyed businesses and created trillions in debt, and yet still millions died, so the monetary losses were pointless, and therefore we shouldn't shut everything down at the next pandemic. The left will claim that the shut downs didn't go far enough, and so we still had millions dead, and therefore we need to shut down even harder and for longer to save lives.

lesuorac 3y ago
I do wonder what could've been done better. I think trivially a pandemic response team might not be disbanded right before a pandemic. But I flew a lot in late 2019 / early 2020 and there were signs everywhere in terminals about did you recently fly to China? So clearly the threat was well known and communicated to "decision makers"; what would a pandemic team have done differently? Moderna was in clinic trials in March [1] thats over a month before USA's Operation Warp Speed [2]. I'm not sure they could've sped up vaccine development that much. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moderna#COVID-19_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moderna#COVID-19_vaccine [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed
thebruce87m 3y ago
I see a lot on the right still denying anyone died at all from covid. My friend still says lockdowns actually killed the people, despite some countries with lockdowns having no excess mortality at all.

MisterSandman 3y ago

WHO is the World Health Organization, they don't consider economic and capitalistic impacts when assigning status to contagions.

GuB-42 3y ago

I don't really get the meaning of debt on a global scale. If I have have $1, it means someone owes $1. That's what money is. On a global scale, money is worthless, it only has meaning on a local scale, as a way to keep tabs on who owes what. So an increase on global debt can mean that there is more money in circulation, i.e. inflation, essentially a tax collected by those who print money. But inflation was rather low during the pandemic, so probably not that. If it is not inflation, then it means that more people owe more to other people. So, more interdependence. I wonder if it is a good or a bad thing. Probably both.

atlantic 3y ago
Interesting perspective. How about the fact that money is owed across time - by present generations to future ones? Viewed in that sense, debt surely remains impactful, even if considered on a global scale.
anononaut 3y ago
You're missing the most defining feature of fiat currency: If you have $1, it means someone owes $1 plus interest. It's a particularly profound distinction and one that should alter your rationalizations and conclusions. On a global scale, it isn't meaningless.