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I'm not sure how mad to be about this. Honestly, at the moment I kinda think it's a good thing on balance. I believe climate change is a huge, urgent concern.
by civilized 3y ago
I'm not sure how mad to be about this. Honestly, at the moment I kinda think it's a good thing on balance.
I believe climate change is a huge, urgent concern. And I think it would be hugely helpful to have carbon removal technology in our risk mitigation portfolio. If fossil fuel companies, out of self-interest, want to support a legitimate research institution doing that, I'm not sure I should complain.
If Stanford starts spouting propaganda that we can procrastinate on getting off of fossil fuels because their carbon removal technology will solve everything, I will definitely condemn them mercilessly. I assume the fossil fuel companies are already spouting such propaganda or funding someone to do so, since they've been spouting anti-climate risk mitigation propaganda for decades, and I am already condemning them mercilessly for that anyway.
I actually think carbon removal could spur renewables development because in theory it's a flexible sink for spare power. Set up a CO2 removal station in the desert, power it with a few square miles of solar panels, and run it when the sun shines. We could get a lot of demand for solar panels out of this, and that will encourage the further development of commercial scaling up. And the more renewables scale up, the more I think fossil fuels will be squeezed out of existence because they won't be able to compete on price.
EDIT: I am open to the possibility that this is completely unrealistic and is just another distraction from the fossil fuel industry. But the arguments need to be made on technical grounds by knowledgeable people. Here is an interview by an expert making that argument: https://www.protocol.com/climate/carbon-dioxide-removal-cost-target https://www.protocol.com/climate/carbon-dioxide-removal-cost...
> Yet ambition and momentum may not be enough to reach that milestone, according to Howard Herzog, a senior research engineer with MIT’s Energy Initiative. He’s been studying carbon capture for over 30 years (even writing a book about it in 2018) and is more skeptical given the capital costs to build CDR plants and the enormous amount of energy they need to run. He sat down with Protocol to talk about why he thinks $100 per ton is “pure fantasy.”
By the way, I really liked this quote, and I wish all the "we just need to"-ers would read it:
> When people think things are too easy, they won’t address the hard decisions, even though those hard decisions may end up with a better solution. At this point, I don’t know if liming the ocean is a great idea or not, but it has a lot of potential, and we have to look at things like that if we want to get to net zero. And people say capturing carbon dioxide from the air for $100 per ton will get us to net zero. But if it’s a fantasy, it’s not going to get us there.
- hutzlibu 3y ago"It would be hugely helpful to have carbon removal technology in our climate change portfolio" Planting trees and establishing more forests is a already working technology with lots of other nice side effects, while I see the "artificial carbon removal" tech often just used as a excuse to not do anything now at all and wait for the magic game changer. "Set up a CO2 removal station in the desert, power it with a few square miles of solar panels, and run it when the sun shines." And I totally like anything related to this, but as long as we build new coal plants, building this would be just symbolic. So first I would use the desert solar power for actually powering the grid, removing the need for coal.
- CatWChainsaw 3y agoThe fact you were downvoted is pretty good evidence that we'll commit a mass extinction on par with the great oxygenation, denying it the whole way.
- civilized 3y agoRegarding the trees, I hope they research that claim! Regarding the concept that it's a distraction, I think that's folk behavioral psychology with an unhealthy dash of moralism. It needs to be substantiated with evidence before I take it seriously. We are talking about a real carbon mitigation research avenue that could have real benefits.
- hutzlibu 3y agoYou mean you want quotes of people, who say climate change is not so bad, because we (will) have co2 removal tech?
- civilized 3y agoI want evidence that there are people who wave away climate change because of proposed future CO2 removal tech, who would not wave away climate change if we stopped all research on CO2 removal tech. I'm not trying to impose an impossible standard here. If you can show examples of something like this happening in contexts other than climate change, I'm open to that. What I don't accept is mere folk behavioral psychology speculation driving what an entire civilization does to mitigate a massive risk.