4 ms·

The article is confused but the theory (and it is a theory, albeit an early one) is a useful restatement of a lot of intuitive understanding in a way that allow

by svnt 4y ago

The article is confused but the theory (and it is a theory, albeit an early one) is a useful restatement of a lot of intuitive understanding in a way that allows it to co-articulate with evolution in particular. The introduction to one of the linked papers is far more informative and frankly readable than the article: > Biological systems have access to a lot of information—genetically, epigenetically, morphologically, and metabolically—and the acquisition of that information occurs via evolutionary selection over successive cycles of replication and propagation [7]. One way to look at such systems is by comparing the self-dissimilarity between different classes of a complex system, allowing a model-free comparison [8]. However, it has also been suggested that much of this information is effectively encrypted, with the heritable information being encoded with random keys from the environment [9]. As such, these random keys are recorded as frozen accidents and increase the operative information content, as well as help direct the system during the process of evolution, producing objects that can construct other objects [10]. https://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/24/7/884 https://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/24/7/884

hn_throawlles 3y ago
matter is the basis of all finally generates yields as the ultimate 'output': The as 'completed' scientific discipline called chemistry the point being how they (chemistry as a cultural institution) owns so much technical know-how without which we cannot live like we do, and this knowledge is not innovating, nor nothing of the sort, it's in maintenance mode. this what I mean by "completed" discipline. energy is the basis of all: same as above but physics are the 'ultimate output'; as the completed discipline. I suppose this 'goal of 'completing physics' is not fully realized yet. Except in some sub-disciplines like civil engineering (built on physics-science). information is the basis of all: still working on it. some mix of logic, philosophy, physics, and computer engineering/science must all output another 'completed scientific 'discipline. or completely re-draw physics as a cultural institution. this article is all about this 'information'-awareness going over old biology > a useful restatement of a lot of intuitive understanding now with more 'information' as a substance guiding the intuition.
- svnt 3y ago
  Yes it is the information leg of the stool. If you haven’t found the work of Melvin Vopson yet you might enjoy it.
  - hn_throawlles 3y ago
    interesting... i don't buy the 'we live in a simulation' idea though. per my own living understanding, the simulation is in my head, each of us are running our own 'local instance' of this matrix/simulation. this is made out of culture understood as an expression of software (but understood as a substance, I guess on this much I do agree with Vopson, information as a fifth state of matter? interesting) finally, I think somebody should try to measure the gravitational contribution (if any?) of information. with the most precision that is available measure a difference between a flash card (or similar, the denser the best) in which it is all zeros Vs one with the most random, highest entropy, sequence of 0s and 1s stored in it.
    - svnt 3y ago
      They looked into this but the experiment they devised (erasing/writing the densest forms of information storage — an SD card I think (Vopson was in a former life a magnetic storage researcher/engineer)) required several orders of magnitude greater sensitivity in mass detection than the current state of the art. I’m also not totally certain it would have worked. The more recent proposal comes at it the opposite way: looking for two extra very low energy photons when a particle is demolished (representative of the Landauer limit).
cryptonector 3y ago
I think what the last sentence is saying by "and increase the operative information content" is that if you're comparing disparate systems' information content, but all you have is ciphertext and the keys but not the encryption algorithm, then it's as if the systems have a lot more information than the plaintext would have. Yes?
- svnt 3y ago
  Yes that’s essentially my understanding. In many types of information they don’t yet have the keys either, but they can usually observe the function (perhaps several layers removed), and often delete things and view the consequences.
charlieflowers 3y ago
Sounds to me somewhat like realizing you can grok a new large source code base by looking at the series of pull requests that got you there. (Without, of course, the benefit of any comments).
- m463 3y ago
  No I think it's more like you have a codebase - without history - that just happens to behave appropriately with a compatible codebase, or with this virus, or with additional resources
  - svnt 3y ago
    It starts as this, but with the help of evolutionary science it can (piecewise) proceed closer to the parent’s understanding.

by svnt 4y ago

hn_throawlles 3y ago

matter is the basis of all finally generates yields as the ultimate 'output': The as 'completed' scientific discipline called chemistry the point being how they (chemistry as a cultural institution) owns so much technical know-how without which we cannot live like we do, and this knowledge is not innovating, nor nothing of the sort, it's in maintenance mode. this what I mean by "completed" discipline. energy is the basis of all: same as above but physics are the 'ultimate output'; as the completed discipline. I suppose this 'goal of 'completing physics' is not fully realized yet. Except in some sub-disciplines like civil engineering (built on physics-science). information is the basis of all: still working on it. some mix of logic, philosophy, physics, and computer engineering/science must all output another 'completed scientific 'discipline. or completely re-draw physics as a cultural institution. this article is all about this 'information'-awareness going over old biology > a useful restatement of a lot of intuitive understanding now with more 'information' as a substance guiding the intuition.

svnt 3y ago
Yes it is the information leg of the stool. If you haven’t found the work of Melvin Vopson yet you might enjoy it.
- hn_throawlles 3y ago
  interesting... i don't buy the 'we live in a simulation' idea though. per my own living understanding, the simulation is in my head, each of us are running our own 'local instance' of this matrix/simulation. this is made out of culture understood as an expression of software (but understood as a substance, I guess on this much I do agree with Vopson, information as a fifth state of matter? interesting) finally, I think somebody should try to measure the gravitational contribution (if any?) of information. with the most precision that is available measure a difference between a flash card (or similar, the denser the best) in which it is all zeros Vs one with the most random, highest entropy, sequence of 0s and 1s stored in it.
  - svnt 3y ago
    They looked into this but the experiment they devised (erasing/writing the densest forms of information storage — an SD card I think (Vopson was in a former life a magnetic storage researcher/engineer)) required several orders of magnitude greater sensitivity in mass detection than the current state of the art. I’m also not totally certain it would have worked. The more recent proposal comes at it the opposite way: looking for two extra very low energy photons when a particle is demolished (representative of the Landauer limit).

cryptonector 3y ago

I think what the last sentence is saying by "and increase the operative information content" is that if you're comparing disparate systems' information content, but all you have is ciphertext and the keys but not the encryption algorithm, then it's as if the systems have a lot more information than the plaintext would have. Yes?

svnt 3y ago
Yes that’s essentially my understanding. In many types of information they don’t yet have the keys either, but they can usually observe the function (perhaps several layers removed), and often delete things and view the consequences.

charlieflowers 3y ago

Sounds to me somewhat like realizing you can grok a new large source code base by looking at the series of pull requests that got you there. (Without, of course, the benefit of any comments).

m463 3y ago
No I think it's more like you have a codebase - without history - that just happens to behave appropriately with a compatible codebase, or with this virus, or with additional resources
- svnt 3y ago
  It starts as this, but with the help of evolutionary science it can (piecewise) proceed closer to the parent’s understanding.