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Scale... Isn't the USA supposedly federalised states? So each state has a small enough scale to solve its issues, with an added benefit that countries in the EU

by piva00 4y ago

Scale... Isn't the USA supposedly federalised states? So each state has a small enough scale to solve its issues, with an added benefit that countries in the EU don't have as easily: a federal government that can work to provide funding, coordination and national-level programs to solve the issues. The closest to that coordination is at the EU level itself which is much more complex and less powerful than the federal government of the USA. I really dislike when American exceptionalism gets to the point of brushing away any kind of role model that could be used as an inspiration to be adapted to American needs as "it won't work because we are different". Guess what, every nation and society is different. Learn from others what worked, adapt to your local needs, that's how progress works. The USA has the largest economy in the world, there's plenty of money that other countries lack for solving social issues. The main issue is allocation, American society does not think that solving social issues is worthy enough so you don't invest in it. After experiencing all the side-effects of such negligence them comes the exceptionalism excuse, that the scale is different, that X, Y or Z are hard because of A, B, C, so on and so forth. It's just an excuse, a lame one at that. Yeah, Nordic countries don't have a large population, as a whole there's around 28 million people across the Nordics (Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Iceland), with around US$ 1.8T of GDP. Texas in the USA has 29 million people with US$1.8T GDP in a much smaller area than all the Nordics combined, with better weather, why the fuck can't Texas be like the Nordics then?

yunohn 4y ago
I’m not supporting the idea of USA exceptionalism, but scale /absolutely/ does matter. I’ve lived on most continents, and currently in the EU, I can see when even small increases in load on services leads to total breakdown. There’s a reason they are unable to sustain amidst immigration.
- piva00 4y ago
  Of course it matters, that's why I brought up the point that each state in the USA is supposedly small enough to have local governance, that they have enough state-level freedoms to solve localised problems and exactly why I compare the scale of Texas to all of the Nordics as they are very similar in GDP and population.
  - jjk166 4y ago
    I think you're arguing against your own point - a single US State is the size of 4 countries. Sure it's a smaller scale than the nearly-continent sized US as a whole, but it's still a substantially larger scale. On top of this, individual US states do not have the same freedom to act that independent nation states do, nor the same budget levels. For example, Texas doesn't have an income tax, and its tax revenue in 2022 was only 3.5 times that of Finland, despite having 5.5 times the population. Most projects need federal funding which does have to work at the immensely larger scale of the whole country.
    - piva00 4y ago
      It's a state less vast in area than 4 small countries, with similar population and economy. 28 million people is not a large country population so the scale should be comparable, it's 10 million more than the Netherlands. > For example, Texas doesn't have an income tax, and its tax revenue in 2022 was only 3.5 times that of Finland, despite having 5.5 times the population. That's exactly my point, it's a failure of policy, not an issue of scale. The policy is to have low taxes, small government, whatever, and from that failure a US state comparable in terms of economy and population to the Nordics is not even close to these countries in social development.
i_am_jl 4y ago
>So each state has a small enough scale to solve its issues The problem is that states are choosing to address this problem by bussing homeless to other states. This is the primary issue with federalized states, solutions are crafted in the interest of each state, negative externalities be damned. The federal government doesn't have the ability under the constitution to address this problem in any real way. Until it can, it'll be cheaper and more politically expedient for those in charge to maintain the status quo than to actually work towards a solution.
- mikrl 4y ago
  > The problem is that states are choosing to address this problem by bussing homeless to other states. What is stopping EU members from doing the same thing between each other? Why are US states exceptional in this case?
  - i_am_jl 4y ago
    I don't know that EU members aren't doing the same thing. I'm sure the US isn't the only place this happens.

by piva00 4y ago

yunohn 4y ago

I’m not supporting the idea of USA exceptionalism, but scale /absolutely/ does matter. I’ve lived on most continents, and currently in the EU, I can see when even small increases in load on services leads to total breakdown. There’s a reason they are unable to sustain amidst immigration.

piva00 4y ago
Of course it matters, that's why I brought up the point that each state in the USA is supposedly small enough to have local governance, that they have enough state-level freedoms to solve localised problems and exactly why I compare the scale of Texas to all of the Nordics as they are very similar in GDP and population.
- jjk166 4y ago
  I think you're arguing against your own point - a single US State is the size of 4 countries. Sure it's a smaller scale than the nearly-continent sized US as a whole, but it's still a substantially larger scale. On top of this, individual US states do not have the same freedom to act that independent nation states do, nor the same budget levels. For example, Texas doesn't have an income tax, and its tax revenue in 2022 was only 3.5 times that of Finland, despite having 5.5 times the population. Most projects need federal funding which does have to work at the immensely larger scale of the whole country.
  - piva00 4y ago
    It's a state less vast in area than 4 small countries, with similar population and economy. 28 million people is not a large country population so the scale should be comparable, it's 10 million more than the Netherlands. > For example, Texas doesn't have an income tax, and its tax revenue in 2022 was only 3.5 times that of Finland, despite having 5.5 times the population. That's exactly my point, it's a failure of policy, not an issue of scale. The policy is to have low taxes, small government, whatever, and from that failure a US state comparable in terms of economy and population to the Nordics is not even close to these countries in social development.

i_am_jl 4y ago

>So each state has a small enough scale to solve its issues The problem is that states are choosing to address this problem by bussing homeless to other states. This is the primary issue with federalized states, solutions are crafted in the interest of each state, negative externalities be damned. The federal government doesn't have the ability under the constitution to address this problem in any real way. Until it can, it'll be cheaper and more politically expedient for those in charge to maintain the status quo than to actually work towards a solution.

mikrl 4y ago
> The problem is that states are choosing to address this problem by bussing homeless to other states. What is stopping EU members from doing the same thing between each other? Why are US states exceptional in this case?
- i_am_jl 4y ago
  I don't know that EU members aren't doing the same thing. I'm sure the US isn't the only place this happens.