5 ms·

I want Europe to succeed and that's why I'm staying here, but I have to agree that the racism situation in France is really bad. It's the main reason I won't wo

by fathyb 3y ago

I want Europe to succeed and that's why I'm staying here, but I have to agree that the racism situation in France is really bad. It's the main reason I won't work for a company here.

sofixa 3y ago
Could you expand on what you mean the "racism situation in France"? The cheap populism politicians or something else?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- fathyb 3y ago
  It wasn't something subtle with room for interpretation, but outwards intolerance (not just racism) from the people themselves. It's generally passed off as a joke (ie. saying don't blow it up or don't steal anything jokingly to a muslim), but repeated multiple times a week. It doesn't seem to be specific to one region or industry. The French word to describe the culture I was exposed to at work would be "beauf". What kind of talented person would take a pay cut to work in such an environment?
bequanna 3y ago
It is racism or just the French acting how most view them: unfriendly, unhelpful, dismissive?
- throwaway40506 3y ago
  If they act like that only to certain ethnicities, then that's called racism.
- fathyb 3y ago
  I was born and raised here, I don't think it's cultural differences.
- Seb-C 3y ago
  Unfortunately you are right, racism is the most visible part of the iceberg, but this toxic attitude is present in all spheres of the French society. Doing harmful jokes as well as dismissing, making fun and looking down at those that don't follow some abstract definition of "being normal" are deeply ingrained in the French culture (and also a source of pride - along with the whole french culture). Few are the people that understands and recognize this. They sincerely see that as just humor and jokes, without realizing that it hurts. And I guess that being a foreigner there makes it worse, since you're even more unaware of it and different than their "norm" (whatever that is). As a french, it took me an emigration to realize that this was - in fact - not normal, but actually a harmful and toxic behaviour that is not acceptable elsewhere.
  - fathyb 3y ago
    If I made a joke to my white colleagues about not pillaging the fridge like they did in Algeria, it would be considered highly inappropriate (rightfully). If it's just humour and jokes, then why do all the jokes have to be about about not being a man or not being white? The people making those jokes are simply intolerant and are biased against others at best, but using humour as a cover. And as I said in another post, I'm French, my native language is French, the only difference between me and most of my French ex-coworkers is my skin. I would not have looked for a job elsewhere if it wasn't for this situation because I didn't speak English very well. I had an awful accent during my first two years at Segment, and yet I felt so oddly accepted. I felt more accepted at a US. company working from my home in Europe with a terrible accent, than in my own country where I'm a native speaker working in the office. I don't think the best way to fight intolerance is contributing to the brain drain, but that's the only solution we have for now.

by fathyb 3y ago

I want Europe to succeed and that's why I'm staying here, but I have to agree that the racism situation in France is really bad. It's the main reason I won't work for a company here.

sofixa 3y ago

Could you expand on what you mean the "racism situation in France"? The cheap populism politicians or something else?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
fathyb 3y ago
It wasn't something subtle with room for interpretation, but outwards intolerance (not just racism) from the people themselves. It's generally passed off as a joke (ie. saying don't blow it up or don't steal anything jokingly to a muslim), but repeated multiple times a week. It doesn't seem to be specific to one region or industry. The French word to describe the culture I was exposed to at work would be "beauf". What kind of talented person would take a pay cut to work in such an environment?

bequanna 3y ago

It is racism or just the French acting how most view them: unfriendly, unhelpful, dismissive?

throwaway40506 3y ago
If they act like that only to certain ethnicities, then that's called racism.
fathyb 3y ago
I was born and raised here, I don't think it's cultural differences.
Seb-C 3y ago
Unfortunately you are right, racism is the most visible part of the iceberg, but this toxic attitude is present in all spheres of the French society. Doing harmful jokes as well as dismissing, making fun and looking down at those that don't follow some abstract definition of "being normal" are deeply ingrained in the French culture (and also a source of pride - along with the whole french culture). Few are the people that understands and recognize this. They sincerely see that as just humor and jokes, without realizing that it hurts. And I guess that being a foreigner there makes it worse, since you're even more unaware of it and different than their "norm" (whatever that is). As a french, it took me an emigration to realize that this was - in fact - not normal, but actually a harmful and toxic behaviour that is not acceptable elsewhere.
- fathyb 3y ago
  If I made a joke to my white colleagues about not pillaging the fridge like they did in Algeria, it would be considered highly inappropriate (rightfully). If it's just humour and jokes, then why do all the jokes have to be about about not being a man or not being white? The people making those jokes are simply intolerant and are biased against others at best, but using humour as a cover. And as I said in another post, I'm French, my native language is French, the only difference between me and most of my French ex-coworkers is my skin. I would not have looked for a job elsewhere if it wasn't for this situation because I didn't speak English very well. I had an awful accent during my first two years at Segment, and yet I felt so oddly accepted. I felt more accepted at a US. company working from my home in Europe with a terrible accent, than in my own country where I'm a native speaker working in the office. I don't think the best way to fight intolerance is contributing to the brain drain, but that's the only solution we have for now.