4 ms·

The houses which are given to homeless are mostly concentrated in certain area's. So if they cause problems, which of course they do, they don't bother 'normal'

The houses which are given to homeless are mostly concentrated in certain area's. So if they cause problems, which of course they do, they don't bother 'normal' families. Those area's are pretty bad, but they're not as dangerous as e.g. in the US. I guess it's because the addicts are mostly alcoholics and they get just enough government money to buy their daily booze.

mach1ne 3y ago
I’m Finnish and this is not my understanding. Finland has a specific policy that every time a new neighbourhood is constructed, a percentage of those houses are allocated for the municipal government, who then rent them for these less fortunate folk. This means that the problems aren’t concentrated but distributed. It’s part of the larger ideology of equality in Finland, which is that the extremes in both good and bad are softened.
- misja111 3y ago
  Thanks, I didn't know that. I'm not Finnish but have stayed in the Helsinki area a lot. There were certain area's in e.g. Tikkurila and Jakomaeki which were pretty bad, and Finnish people told me it was because many alcoholics lived there in state housing. So I supposed that state housing was concentrated in certain area's.
  - exDM69 3y ago
    That is a different matter. Municipalities own a significant amount of housing available for rent. These are available for anyone but there are societal reasons why someone might be preferred (e.g. single mother), while others are in the queue. These are not the housing units given to the homeless. They are run by organizations and charities together in collaboration with municipal social workers. There are two or three houses like this in Helsinki.
    - misja111 3y ago
      > There are two or three houses like this in Helsinki. So are you saying that two or three houses were enough to solve homelessness in Helsinki?
      - exDM69 3y ago
        That's two or three apartment blocks, so maybe 200-500 apartments? Don't have exact figures at hand. The municipally owned rental housing (available to anyone) which you talk about, together with different forms of social support help people from falling into homelessness in the first place. Those few apartment blocks used for the "housing first" scheme are the help people out of homelessness. These houses are not normal rental apartments, and have social workers present, etc. These are not available for rent for anyone, and no-one would voluntarily choose to live in one of these if given alternatives. They are somewhere between a shelter and a normal apartment.
  - Sharlin 3y ago
    This segregation of people based on social class (as well as ethnicity and/or native/immigrant divide) is a big social problem that was unfortunately exacerbated by poor policy choices made in past decades. Today it is recognized that developments should mix people from different backgrounds and income levels in order to not create neglected "problem neighborhoods".
exDM69 3y ago
This is incorrect. There are only a few houses for this purpose in the Helsinki Area, and they are actually in quite nice locations and far from each other. No-one in their right mind would live in these houses if they have an alternative, but the problems don't affect the wider area. Some restlessness in the immediate vicinity, but not that bad.
- misja111 3y ago
  According to https://world-habitat.org/news/our-blog/helsinki-is-still-leading-the-way-in-ending-homelessness-but-how-are-they-doing-it/ https://world-habitat.org/news/our-blog/helsinki-is-still-le..., there were 3000 houses in 2022 for this purpose in the Helsinki Area. > and they are actually in quite nice locations and far from each other. The area's near Helsinki were I've been and where I was told by Finnish people were a lot of state houses, were certainly not nice locations. There were alcoholics everywhere and the area was visibly poor. But it's true, they were not as bad as in many other countries.
  - exDM69 3y ago
    The source you refer to is talking about municipal housing, which is just normal rental housing owned by municipalities. There is indeed a lot of those and it sure helps keeping the homelessness down together with social support. There are areas with high concentrations of municipal housing built in 1970s and 1980s, and this is generally considered a mistake in urban planning as there are concentrations of low-income, low-education residents, which isn't a positive for the area. But I reiterate: this is normal housing available to everyone. You gotta pay your rent and behave or you get evicted. The municipality is just the landlord here. The supported housing for the homeless is just a few housing units (apartment blocks), and they aren't normal housing. Examples of this kind of housing is Sininauhasäätiö (org), Ruusulankatu (address) and Diakonissalaitos, Helsinginkatu.

mach1ne 3y ago

I’m Finnish and this is not my understanding. Finland has a specific policy that every time a new neighbourhood is constructed, a percentage of those houses are allocated for the municipal government, who then rent them for these less fortunate folk. This means that the problems aren’t concentrated but distributed. It’s part of the larger ideology of equality in Finland, which is that the extremes in both good and bad are softened.

misja111 3y ago
Thanks, I didn't know that. I'm not Finnish but have stayed in the Helsinki area a lot. There were certain area's in e.g. Tikkurila and Jakomaeki which were pretty bad, and Finnish people told me it was because many alcoholics lived there in state housing. So I supposed that state housing was concentrated in certain area's.
- exDM69 3y ago
  That is a different matter. Municipalities own a significant amount of housing available for rent. These are available for anyone but there are societal reasons why someone might be preferred (e.g. single mother), while others are in the queue. These are not the housing units given to the homeless. They are run by organizations and charities together in collaboration with municipal social workers. There are two or three houses like this in Helsinki.
  - misja111 3y ago
    > There are two or three houses like this in Helsinki. So are you saying that two or three houses were enough to solve homelessness in Helsinki?
    - exDM69 3y ago
      That's two or three apartment blocks, so maybe 200-500 apartments? Don't have exact figures at hand. The municipally owned rental housing (available to anyone) which you talk about, together with different forms of social support help people from falling into homelessness in the first place. Those few apartment blocks used for the "housing first" scheme are the help people out of homelessness. These houses are not normal rental apartments, and have social workers present, etc. These are not available for rent for anyone, and no-one would voluntarily choose to live in one of these if given alternatives. They are somewhere between a shelter and a normal apartment.
- Sharlin 3y ago
  This segregation of people based on social class (as well as ethnicity and/or native/immigrant divide) is a big social problem that was unfortunately exacerbated by poor policy choices made in past decades. Today it is recognized that developments should mix people from different backgrounds and income levels in order to not create neglected "problem neighborhoods".

exDM69 3y ago

This is incorrect. There are only a few houses for this purpose in the Helsinki Area, and they are actually in quite nice locations and far from each other. No-one in their right mind would live in these houses if they have an alternative, but the problems don't affect the wider area. Some restlessness in the immediate vicinity, but not that bad.

misja111 3y ago
According to https://world-habitat.org/news/our-blog/helsinki-is-still-leading-the-way-in-ending-homelessness-but-how-are-they-doing-it/ https://world-habitat.org/news/our-blog/helsinki-is-still-le..., there were 3000 houses in 2022 for this purpose in the Helsinki Area. > and they are actually in quite nice locations and far from each other. The area's near Helsinki were I've been and where I was told by Finnish people were a lot of state houses, were certainly not nice locations. There were alcoholics everywhere and the area was visibly poor. But it's true, they were not as bad as in many other countries.
- exDM69 3y ago
  The source you refer to is talking about municipal housing, which is just normal rental housing owned by municipalities. There is indeed a lot of those and it sure helps keeping the homelessness down together with social support. There are areas with high concentrations of municipal housing built in 1970s and 1980s, and this is generally considered a mistake in urban planning as there are concentrations of low-income, low-education residents, which isn't a positive for the area. But I reiterate: this is normal housing available to everyone. You gotta pay your rent and behave or you get evicted. The municipality is just the landlord here. The supported housing for the homeless is just a few housing units (apartment blocks), and they aren't normal housing. Examples of this kind of housing is Sininauhasäätiö (org), Ruusulankatu (address) and Diakonissalaitos, Helsinginkatu.