6 ms·

I don’t know about Finland, but Dutch people already can’t find places to live. If you are unlucky financially and need government housing you will wait years

I don’t know about Finland, but Dutch people already can’t find places to live. If you are unlucky financially and need government housing you will wait years if not a decade or more for something. If you can rent something you will pay €1000 for a modest place in a bad neighborhood. Given that a fair chunk of the population earns in the €1500-2000 range, that’s not a good prospect. Housing is not just something you give away that easily (anymore, if ever).

riffraff 3y ago
Worth noting: population density for all of the Netherlands 532/km^2. The highest density in Finland, in the Greater Helsinki area, is 421.8/km^2. Finland does have a lot more space. Still, Paris has a density of 690/km^2 and is not a hellscape, so the choice of not having more housing (and pushing down RE prices) is political, not a deity-given rule.
- imgabe 3y ago
  You're comparing two countries to a city. Paris has the rest of France for people to live in.
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  But Paris absolutely has the housing issues described by GP. More and more "middle-class" people are moving out of the city, especially those with children. Schools are starting to close classes for lack of pupils. There is a lot of government-subsidized housing, but it's very tough to get any if you actually make some money. They mostly go to the poorest, of which there are many. Waiting lists are long (think multiple years). Private sector housing is very expensive and landlords won't rent to you if you don't make three times the rent and have a long-term contract. 1000 € a month would get you a studio apartment, yet require you to make 3000 € a month. That's "a good salary". Want to buy? Nah. With 3000 € a month, you better have a serious down payment (rich parents, I guess?), or banks won't lend you a cent. You figured being freelance would net you a better income? Sure, but guess what? That's not "stable employment", so banks will laugh you out the door. You also won't qualify for the landlord insurance scheme if you resign to rent, so better know someone with a stable contract who'll cosign for you.
- SanderNL 3y ago
  I know these numbers and they are brought up often, but nearly 100% of our terrain is fundamentally habitable - but some of it is purposefully claimed for nature - and filled to the brim with essential infrastructure. I don't think you can just take the vast, empty and rough mountainous and wild terrains of Finland and declare them realistically habitable.
ChuckNorris89 3y ago
I was planning to move to NL because the tech market is shit in my other EU country, but the housing was the show stopper for me. Same for Berlin. It's so bad it's no point in trying to move there anymore unless you make bank or already have connections. Europe should seriously invest to develop tech in other cities/countries as well and not expect everyone to squeeze in for jobs in the places that are already the most overcrowded.
johnchristopher 3y ago
Brussels has 10-15 years waiting list for social housing. In the meantime private co-living is expanding (increasing rents for everyone). See https://www.brusselstimes.com/339953/tax-on-co-living-houses-introduced-in-brussels https://www.brusselstimes.com/339953/tax-on-co-living-houses... and https://www.brusselstimes.com/230905/co-living-in-brussels-is-on-the-rise-but-at-what-cost https://www.brusselstimes.com/230905/co-living-in-brussels-i...

riffraff 3y ago

Worth noting: population density for all of the Netherlands 532/km^2. The highest density in Finland, in the Greater Helsinki area, is 421.8/km^2. Finland does have a lot more space. Still, Paris has a density of 690/km^2 and is not a hellscape, so the choice of not having more housing (and pushing down RE prices) is political, not a deity-given rule.

imgabe 3y ago
You're comparing two countries to a city. Paris has the rest of France for people to live in.
vladvasiliu 3y ago
But Paris absolutely has the housing issues described by GP. More and more "middle-class" people are moving out of the city, especially those with children. Schools are starting to close classes for lack of pupils. There is a lot of government-subsidized housing, but it's very tough to get any if you actually make some money. They mostly go to the poorest, of which there are many. Waiting lists are long (think multiple years). Private sector housing is very expensive and landlords won't rent to you if you don't make three times the rent and have a long-term contract. 1000 € a month would get you a studio apartment, yet require you to make 3000 € a month. That's "a good salary". Want to buy? Nah. With 3000 € a month, you better have a serious down payment (rich parents, I guess?), or banks won't lend you a cent. You figured being freelance would net you a better income? Sure, but guess what? That's not "stable employment", so banks will laugh you out the door. You also won't qualify for the landlord insurance scheme if you resign to rent, so better know someone with a stable contract who'll cosign for you.
SanderNL 3y ago
I know these numbers and they are brought up often, but nearly 100% of our terrain is fundamentally habitable - but some of it is purposefully claimed for nature - and filled to the brim with essential infrastructure. I don't think you can just take the vast, empty and rough mountainous and wild terrains of Finland and declare them realistically habitable.

ChuckNorris89 3y ago

I was planning to move to NL because the tech market is shit in my other EU country, but the housing was the show stopper for me. Same for Berlin. It's so bad it's no point in trying to move there anymore unless you make bank or already have connections. Europe should seriously invest to develop tech in other cities/countries as well and not expect everyone to squeeze in for jobs in the places that are already the most overcrowded.

johnchristopher 3y ago

Brussels has 10-15 years waiting list for social housing. In the meantime private co-living is expanding (increasing rents for everyone). See https://www.brusselstimes.com/339953/tax-on-co-living-houses-introduced-in-brussels https://www.brusselstimes.com/339953/tax-on-co-living-houses... and https://www.brusselstimes.com/230905/co-living-in-brussels-is-on-the-rise-but-at-what-cost https://www.brusselstimes.com/230905/co-living-in-brussels-i...