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GoatBots has an EV calculator for MTGO payouts: https://www.goatbots.com/event-calculator https://www.goatbots.com/event-calculator One league takes about 1.5-

GoatBots has an EV calculator for MTGO payouts: https://www.goatbots.com/event-calculator https://www.goatbots.com/event-calculator One league takes about 1.5-2 hours to play, a challenge 5-8 hours depending on amount of players. 1 tix = $0.90, so you can see how hard it is to make a living. I think there's only like 3-4,000 of us that play mtgo still, so the level of play is much higher than Arena (or even your average local FNM)

pclmulqdq 3y ago
MTGO grinders used to often double-queue or triple-queue, running 2-3 events at a time. That should improve the EV on your time, but it's still bad.
- FanaHOVA 3y ago
  Yep, still plenty of those of folks, mostly for challenges on the weekend. I'm always impressed by how they can keep two games in two different formats straight 4-5 hours into it lol
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    If it's anything like the news reports I read years ago about various mobile games, I imagine the people you're talking about are low-paid employees of a grinding company, playing on heavily streamlined and partially automated stations provided by the employer. There likely isn't even 1:1 relationship between a person and a handle.
    - Ntrails 3y ago
      I do not know, but Magic is not like poker where EV and optimal play is easy. You only make money if you are winning, and in a pool of decent players winning consistently is hard. It is not a classic grinding opportunity
      - smabie 3y ago
        Why do you think optimal play in poker is easy?
        Ntrails 3y ago
        Because the maths is known. The variables and unknowns are all clear.
        UncleMeat 3y ago
        In comparison to mtg it is easy.
    - FanaHOVA 3y ago
      It's just not possible to be successful in Magic doing that because the meta would quickly adapt to exploit whatever decks they had built automations for and make them losing players. Also, most trophy leaders in mtgo are well known people who all hang out in the same Discords, so we know exactly who they are.
      - TeMPOraL 3y ago
        Why not? Even ignoring any kind of streamlining automation, someone who plays MTG 8+ hours a day 5+ times a week is bound to eventually become a successful and adaptable player. They may not end up at the very top, but close to it, and more than enough to make positive profits for their employer, in countries with low labor costs and standards of living.
thom 3y ago
I wonder what the number is during vintage cube season. That’s the main reason I come back these days (never did manage to go infinite…)
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
That'll be the tradeoff with games that allow players to earn money (play-to-earn); it has to be rewarding enough to attract players, but not rewarding enough that people can turn it into a job (automated or otherwise). This is why these play-to-earn crypto/nft games aren't going to work. Or well, they work, but not the way people think they do - it'll be low wage countries doing the grinding, and people with expendable income / whales doing the buying, and I'm not sure if the two groups are aware of each other's existence.

pclmulqdq 3y ago

MTGO grinders used to often double-queue or triple-queue, running 2-3 events at a time. That should improve the EV on your time, but it's still bad.

FanaHOVA 3y ago
Yep, still plenty of those of folks, mostly for challenges on the weekend. I'm always impressed by how they can keep two games in two different formats straight 4-5 hours into it lol
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  If it's anything like the news reports I read years ago about various mobile games, I imagine the people you're talking about are low-paid employees of a grinding company, playing on heavily streamlined and partially automated stations provided by the employer. There likely isn't even 1:1 relationship between a person and a handle.
  - Ntrails 3y ago
    I do not know, but Magic is not like poker where EV and optimal play is easy. You only make money if you are winning, and in a pool of decent players winning consistently is hard. It is not a classic grinding opportunity
    - smabie 3y ago
      Why do you think optimal play in poker is easy?
      - Ntrails 3y ago
        Because the maths is known. The variables and unknowns are all clear.
      - UncleMeat 3y ago
        In comparison to mtg it is easy.
  - FanaHOVA 3y ago
    It's just not possible to be successful in Magic doing that because the meta would quickly adapt to exploit whatever decks they had built automations for and make them losing players. Also, most trophy leaders in mtgo are well known people who all hang out in the same Discords, so we know exactly who they are.
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      Why not? Even ignoring any kind of streamlining automation, someone who plays MTG 8+ hours a day 5+ times a week is bound to eventually become a successful and adaptable player. They may not end up at the very top, but close to it, and more than enough to make positive profits for their employer, in countries with low labor costs and standards of living.

thom 3y ago

I wonder what the number is during vintage cube season. That’s the main reason I come back these days (never did manage to go infinite…)

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

That'll be the tradeoff with games that allow players to earn money (play-to-earn); it has to be rewarding enough to attract players, but not rewarding enough that people can turn it into a job (automated or otherwise). This is why these play-to-earn crypto/nft games aren't going to work. Or well, they work, but not the way people think they do - it'll be low wage countries doing the grinding, and people with expendable income / whales doing the buying, and I'm not sure if the two groups are aware of each other's existence.