6 ms·

I'm very much for individual freedom when it comes to drug use, assuming you aren't hurting others. I think in the push for cannabis legalization, many people h

I'm very much for individual freedom when it comes to drug use, assuming you aren't hurting others. I think in the push for cannabis legalization, many people have forgotten that cannabis is a psychedelic drug. While it's not the same as LSD or psilocybin, it can definitely change perception and thinking. In 1996 I had a psychotic episode from LSD, and developed generalized anxiety disorder and panic disorder. I always had a bit of anxiety, but it exacerbated the problem. Cannabis can trigger a bad panic attack for me, dependent on the strength and strain (probably more likely the different cannabinoids present). Cannabis can also make me very calm and give my mind a kind of "reset" that helps to destress and allows me to reflect on my current anxiety. I firmly believe that psychedelics are triggers and not the cause of mental disorders. As has been commonly said, set and setting are large contributing factors, even for cannabis use.

Mike_12345 3y ago
> I firmly believe that psychedelics are triggers and not the cause of mental disorders If a neurotoxic drug such as cannabis causes psychosis in someone who would otherwise never have become psychotic without the drug, then whether you call it a cause or a trigger is quibbling over semantics.
- xupybd 3y ago
  That's an interesting question. Could someone have a serious mental health disorder that would never manifest without certain triggers. I'm not qualified to guess but I suspect it would be possible. Then if it's possible the rate that it happens would be important. If it's rare then it might not be important in the discussion of causes of mental health problems.
  - Mike_12345 3y ago
    Isn't that the entire point of the article and study that we are commenting on?
    - xupybd 3y ago
      Yes, the article covers one drug and one mental illness. I'm extrapolating to all recreational drugs and mental illnesses.
- mandmandam 3y ago
  Sorry, neurotoxic? That's not a settled debate; not remotely. There are many reasons to believe cannabis is neuroprotective. Especially when using safe, high CBD, high cannabinoid varieties; a rather vital distinction. And it's not semantics, because you can't make the assumption that people would "never have become psychotic without the drug". On a population scale, such an effect would have stood out by now if it had much strength at all.
  - Mike_12345 3y ago
    > That's not a settled debate; not remotely. In my opinion it is neurotoxic, based on studies I have seen (such as this one that we are commenting on) plus my own direct personal experience. Even without the psychoactive components, the smoke is carcinogenic (like tobacco) and toxic to all cells, including neurons. Go take a massive bong hit, then tell me your mind and lungs feel healthy. Cannabis is blatantly toxic filth. > because you can't make the assumption that people would "never have become psychotic without the drug" Somehow you are ignoring the entire point of the article/study that we are commenting on.
    - mandmandam 3y ago
      > Cannabis is blatantly toxic filth No, it isn't. It's medicine, and remarkably harmless recreation. It saves many lives, and enhances quality of life for millions of people. It has a smorgasbord of health benefits. It does have side effects, and drawbacks. It's not a panacea, and it doesn't suit every one. It's not for kids (except when it's medically worth it). But calling it "blatantly toxic filth" is wildly inflammatory... Which is funny, because cannabis reduces inflammation. With far less toxic effects than most anti-inflammatories. > you are ignoring the entire point of the article/study that we are commenting on. I disagree with the methods and conclusion. As do plenty of people here, who have pointed out the flaws with the article and the study, for example, the very serious correlation/causation issues. To talk about schizophrenia and cannabis without ever mentioning CBD is remarkably dishonest. THC concentration merits a single sideways mention. This is bad science and worse journalism, and it smells like big pharma. Which wouldn't surprise me at all. Cannabis hurts their profits. Painkiller use goes way down after legalization and decriminalization - as do prescription painkiller deaths.
- progmetaldev 3y ago
  It has not been proven to be neurotoxic, so I'm not so sure over your reference of semantics. I only consume edibles, as the smoke is too harsh for my lungs. This study does not have a definitive answer as to whether cannabis is actually the cause or trigger for schizophrenia.
  - Mike_12345 3y ago
    Go to Google Scholar and search for "neurotoxicity of cannabis" You can find studies showing that even pure THC is neurotoxic. It depends on dosage and frequency.
    - titulinfrye 3y ago
      [flagged]
- titulinfrye 3y ago
  [flagged]
_cvvf 3y ago
Very similar experience here. I had a psychotic episode last summer on shrooms, and have since struggled with anxiety. I definitely agree that if you have any pre-existing mental health issues at all, using psychedelics is playing with fire.
- titulinfrye 3y ago
  [flagged]

Mike_12345 3y ago

> I firmly believe that psychedelics are triggers and not the cause of mental disorders If a neurotoxic drug such as cannabis causes psychosis in someone who would otherwise never have become psychotic without the drug, then whether you call it a cause or a trigger is quibbling over semantics.

xupybd 3y ago
That's an interesting question. Could someone have a serious mental health disorder that would never manifest without certain triggers. I'm not qualified to guess but I suspect it would be possible. Then if it's possible the rate that it happens would be important. If it's rare then it might not be important in the discussion of causes of mental health problems.
- Mike_12345 3y ago
  Isn't that the entire point of the article and study that we are commenting on?
  - xupybd 3y ago
    Yes, the article covers one drug and one mental illness. I'm extrapolating to all recreational drugs and mental illnesses.
mandmandam 3y ago
Sorry, neurotoxic? That's not a settled debate; not remotely. There are many reasons to believe cannabis is neuroprotective. Especially when using safe, high CBD, high cannabinoid varieties; a rather vital distinction. And it's not semantics, because you can't make the assumption that people would "never have become psychotic without the drug". On a population scale, such an effect would have stood out by now if it had much strength at all.
- Mike_12345 3y ago
  > That's not a settled debate; not remotely. In my opinion it is neurotoxic, based on studies I have seen (such as this one that we are commenting on) plus my own direct personal experience. Even without the psychoactive components, the smoke is carcinogenic (like tobacco) and toxic to all cells, including neurons. Go take a massive bong hit, then tell me your mind and lungs feel healthy. Cannabis is blatantly toxic filth. > because you can't make the assumption that people would "never have become psychotic without the drug" Somehow you are ignoring the entire point of the article/study that we are commenting on.
  - mandmandam 3y ago
    > Cannabis is blatantly toxic filth No, it isn't. It's medicine, and remarkably harmless recreation. It saves many lives, and enhances quality of life for millions of people. It has a smorgasbord of health benefits. It does have side effects, and drawbacks. It's not a panacea, and it doesn't suit every one. It's not for kids (except when it's medically worth it). But calling it "blatantly toxic filth" is wildly inflammatory... Which is funny, because cannabis reduces inflammation. With far less toxic effects than most anti-inflammatories. > you are ignoring the entire point of the article/study that we are commenting on. I disagree with the methods and conclusion. As do plenty of people here, who have pointed out the flaws with the article and the study, for example, the very serious correlation/causation issues. To talk about schizophrenia and cannabis without ever mentioning CBD is remarkably dishonest. THC concentration merits a single sideways mention. This is bad science and worse journalism, and it smells like big pharma. Which wouldn't surprise me at all. Cannabis hurts their profits. Painkiller use goes way down after legalization and decriminalization - as do prescription painkiller deaths.
progmetaldev 3y ago
It has not been proven to be neurotoxic, so I'm not so sure over your reference of semantics. I only consume edibles, as the smoke is too harsh for my lungs. This study does not have a definitive answer as to whether cannabis is actually the cause or trigger for schizophrenia.
- Mike_12345 3y ago
  Go to Google Scholar and search for "neurotoxicity of cannabis" You can find studies showing that even pure THC is neurotoxic. It depends on dosage and frequency.
  - titulinfrye 3y ago
    [flagged]
titulinfrye 3y ago
[flagged]

_cvvf 3y ago

Very similar experience here. I had a psychotic episode last summer on shrooms, and have since struggled with anxiety. I definitely agree that if you have any pre-existing mental health issues at all, using psychedelics is playing with fire.

titulinfrye 3y ago
[flagged]