4 ms·

I didn't realize that the USB standard was ineffective against cheap cable manufactures. How would MFI be any different?

cududa 3y ago
Here's two great examples of the standard's ineffectiveness https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10508494 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10508494 https://debugger.medium.com/usb-c-was-supposed-to-simplify-our-lives-instead-its-a-total-mess-626bb2ea3688#Echobox=1601499898 https://debugger.medium.com/usb-c-was-supposed-to-simplify-o... Apple has stringent regular testing standards on MFI certified cables - they regularly buy them up "in secret" to continuously test that they're meeting cert requirements. If memory serves, the contract stipulates Apple can levy massive penalties for "bait and switching" actual certified cables with inferior product. When the Nintendo Switch came out, Nintendo, being Nintendo, wired the USB-C adapter not to spec, so you'd need a Nintendo power brick to charge the thing. This lead to people trying to use the Nintendo charger on other devices (because USB-C looks like USB-C) and frying them/ blowing them up.
- muro 3y ago
  I used the Nintendo switch charger since the switch came out and nothing bad ever happened. Same in the other direction - regularly charged a switch with a different charger and all worked fine.
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  MFI certification is as toothless as CE certification. When it is profitable to skim the product, it will happen.
  - ksec 3y ago
    As much as I like to shit on Apple, I dont think you know how the MFI certification works, both in theory and in practice.
- goosedragons 3y ago
  You've never needed the Nintendo brick to charge a Switch. You can charge it with a standard 5W iPhone or whatever adapter. To use a Switch DOCKED you do need a power adapter that supports 15V 2.6A. Originally this was not in the USB C PD spec so most bricks couldn't. It now is and for example a 97W Apple brick will do it no problem. Where Nintendo went out of spec is in the dock to make it easier to plug in. The brick is fine and I've used it charge phones and things, never fried anything and I've never heard of the Nintendo brick frying anything. You might be thinking of some 3rd party Switch docks which fried Switchs because they improperly sent power.
  - cududa 3y ago
    So you agree, this all requires esoteric knowledge and looking up specs for what each cable and device can support? I mean, who in the world is going to do voltage comparisons, aside from us nerds?
    - goosedragons 3y ago
      Do you consider it a problem that a PC USB 2.0 port won't charge a Lightning equipped iPad while being used? That a 5W iPhone brick won't fast charge it? That a 60W MagSafe brick won't allow a 2015 MacBook Pro to charge and go all out at the same time?
- xinayder 3y ago
  I wouldn't be against this MFI if it meant we could have cheap, standard conformant cables that aren't bad. Apple uses MFI as an excuse to overprice compatible cables. Take a look at USB-C cables. Of course, there will be cheap ones, but even the standard conformant, QC-compatible ones are way cheaper than an Apple-certified cable.
  - dimmke 3y ago
    See I don’t understand this argument. I wrote a blog post about this recently where I discuss this at length. But are MFi cables overpriced? It doesn’t seem to be the case. https://daniel.do/article/chromes-manifest-v3-foibles/ https://daniel.do/article/chromes-manifest-v3-foibles/ (scroll down to the section that says aside as the main post is about something else)

cududa 3y ago

Here's two great examples of the standard's ineffectiveness https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10508494 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10508494 https://debugger.medium.com/usb-c-was-supposed-to-simplify-our-lives-instead-its-a-total-mess-626bb2ea3688#Echobox=1601499898 https://debugger.medium.com/usb-c-was-supposed-to-simplify-o... Apple has stringent regular testing standards on MFI certified cables - they regularly buy them up "in secret" to continuously test that they're meeting cert requirements. If memory serves, the contract stipulates Apple can levy massive penalties for "bait and switching" actual certified cables with inferior product. When the Nintendo Switch came out, Nintendo, being Nintendo, wired the USB-C adapter not to spec, so you'd need a Nintendo power brick to charge the thing. This lead to people trying to use the Nintendo charger on other devices (because USB-C looks like USB-C) and frying them/ blowing them up.

muro 3y ago
I used the Nintendo switch charger since the switch came out and nothing bad ever happened. Same in the other direction - regularly charged a switch with a different charger and all worked fine.
TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
MFI certification is as toothless as CE certification. When it is profitable to skim the product, it will happen.
- ksec 3y ago
  As much as I like to shit on Apple, I dont think you know how the MFI certification works, both in theory and in practice.
goosedragons 3y ago
You've never needed the Nintendo brick to charge a Switch. You can charge it with a standard 5W iPhone or whatever adapter. To use a Switch DOCKED you do need a power adapter that supports 15V 2.6A. Originally this was not in the USB C PD spec so most bricks couldn't. It now is and for example a 97W Apple brick will do it no problem. Where Nintendo went out of spec is in the dock to make it easier to plug in. The brick is fine and I've used it charge phones and things, never fried anything and I've never heard of the Nintendo brick frying anything. You might be thinking of some 3rd party Switch docks which fried Switchs because they improperly sent power.
- cududa 3y ago
  So you agree, this all requires esoteric knowledge and looking up specs for what each cable and device can support? I mean, who in the world is going to do voltage comparisons, aside from us nerds?
  - goosedragons 3y ago
    Do you consider it a problem that a PC USB 2.0 port won't charge a Lightning equipped iPad while being used? That a 5W iPhone brick won't fast charge it? That a 60W MagSafe brick won't allow a 2015 MacBook Pro to charge and go all out at the same time?
xinayder 3y ago
I wouldn't be against this MFI if it meant we could have cheap, standard conformant cables that aren't bad. Apple uses MFI as an excuse to overprice compatible cables. Take a look at USB-C cables. Of course, there will be cheap ones, but even the standard conformant, QC-compatible ones are way cheaper than an Apple-certified cable.
- dimmke 3y ago
  See I don’t understand this argument. I wrote a blog post about this recently where I discuss this at length. But are MFi cables overpriced? It doesn’t seem to be the case. https://daniel.do/article/chromes-manifest-v3-foibles/ https://daniel.do/article/chromes-manifest-v3-foibles/ (scroll down to the section that says aside as the main post is about something else)