4 ms·

I've been using Vim for years (well, decades really...) and a couple of years ago I decided I was going to go all in and learn to do it all from the the home ke

I've been using Vim for years (well, decades really...) and a couple of years ago I decided I was going to go all in and learn to do it all from the the home keys. I did the Vim snake game, daily practices, the whole nine yards. So now I am slightly more productive inside Vim and fucking type strings of j's all over everything else I use.

m463 3y ago
I went the opposite way (many) years ago with vi caps lock + j -> screwed up document too many times (I don't recall vi having multiple undo, just one level) Finally switched to emacs. Pleasantly surprised when emacs keystrokes worked all through macos. I do use vi quite a bit for quick edits of config files. My fingers just figure out that i'm in vi. (and vi supports some emacs keystrokes, like c-n, c-p)
- hirvi74 3y ago
  I learned Emacs first, then Vi(m), then I went back to Emacs but with Evil-mode. It's truly the best of both worlds in my opinion. Much like you, if I need to edit a quick file, I can just fire up Vi or Vim and be on my way. What's nice about Evil, for those unaware, is that I can turn it off whenever I want and go back to Emacs' key-bindings. However, I have Emacs bindings set-up to work while in 'insert mode' in Evil.I think the package is called 'hybrid-mode' if I am not mistaken? It's been a while since I looked at it, so I apologize. I find that both styles have certain advantages. For example, If I want to jump to the end of a line to add a semi-colon or something, I rather just Crtl+e while I am in 'insert mode' vs Esc -> shift + a Though if I want to jump to the corresponding open/close curl brace, I rather use Vi(m) bindings.
BeFlatXIII 3y ago
…if only vim mode worked nicely for us Colemak users.
- turboponyy 3y ago
  This was one of the most painful things when learning Colemak, and ultimately probably contributed to me stopping. It's a shame, because it felt really comfortable otherwise.
- alwayslikethis 3y ago
  I used Colemak, and I use unmodified vim bindings. Once you get used to it, it works just fine. I find that after the transition it starts to feel like I'm talking to vim with a shorthand language, rather than muscle memory associations with commands. Instead of the three keys, I now think 'ciw' if I need to change this word, and it isn't any harder to type than on qwerty. On colemak hjkl are still all accessible by your right hand, so the change isn't that bad, even if unintuitive at first.
  - epiccoleman 3y ago
    > it starts to feel like I'm talking to vim with a shorthand language This is like, the whole _point_ of Vim to me - much less about muscle memory and more about mnemonic ways of interacting with text. `ciw` is "change inside word", `da{` is "delete a tag", `yat` is yank a tag, etc. t and f are "to" and "through" (I think "froo" for that one). vf; is "visually select thru the next semicolon" for example. The whole combination of motions and text objects is the real magic of Vim for me. Also the g ex command is pretty great too.
    - 3np 3y ago
      f: find
      - epiccoleman 3y ago
        Yes - but to me that doesn't capture the distinction between t and f as well (and with as much fun)
    - eviks 3y ago
      With more convenient keybinds you'd get the same associations, just with different keycaps/fingers (like cat would be cut a tag or xat could be aXe a tag), so it's not worth it using the bad defaults on account of this
JdeBP 3y ago
I've actually used terminals that didn't have cursor keys, as well as systems with original vi where the cursor keys didn't work because the sysop didn't have termcap set up correctly; and I regard it as somewhat masochistic to deliberately constrain oneself in this way, in the modern world where (in comparison) everyone (who has a serious keyboard) has cursor keys. Heck, home computers of the early 1980s had cursor keys. And nowadays we don't even have the excuse that there are some barmy terminals around that produce really odd character sequences from the cursor keys that we don't get configurations for out of the box. Even the world of terminals and terminal emulators is mostly DEC-ish now. I realize that people do it as an exercise, or out of curiosity, sometimes. But I have no intention of ever going back to that world. (-:
- zamnos 3y ago
  To each their own, but it's not that there aren't cursor keys (well, sometimes), but that the move off of home row is too disruptive, mentally. Same thing with the Thinkpad track point. it's not the most accurate, but it's worth it need because it's even closer to home row than even a touchpad.
- folkrav 3y ago
  I'm not sure I understand what's inherently contraining about using different keys to do the same things.
jawilson2 3y ago
> and fucking type strings of j's all over everything else I use I have vim navigation setup for navigating tmux, i.e. ctrl-a + h/j/k/l nav left, up, down, right. There are so many times I miss the ctrl-a, and just spam "kkk". I'm vaguely terrified I'm going to be reported to HR.

m463 3y ago

I went the opposite way (many) years ago with vi caps lock + j -> screwed up document too many times (I don't recall vi having multiple undo, just one level) Finally switched to emacs. Pleasantly surprised when emacs keystrokes worked all through macos. I do use vi quite a bit for quick edits of config files. My fingers just figure out that i'm in vi. (and vi supports some emacs keystrokes, like c-n, c-p)

hirvi74 3y ago
I learned Emacs first, then Vi(m), then I went back to Emacs but with Evil-mode. It's truly the best of both worlds in my opinion. Much like you, if I need to edit a quick file, I can just fire up Vi or Vim and be on my way. What's nice about Evil, for those unaware, is that I can turn it off whenever I want and go back to Emacs' key-bindings. However, I have Emacs bindings set-up to work while in 'insert mode' in Evil.I think the package is called 'hybrid-mode' if I am not mistaken? It's been a while since I looked at it, so I apologize. I find that both styles have certain advantages. For example, If I want to jump to the end of a line to add a semi-colon or something, I rather just Crtl+e while I am in 'insert mode' vs Esc -> shift + a Though if I want to jump to the corresponding open/close curl brace, I rather use Vi(m) bindings.

BeFlatXIII 3y ago

…if only vim mode worked nicely for us Colemak users.

turboponyy 3y ago
This was one of the most painful things when learning Colemak, and ultimately probably contributed to me stopping. It's a shame, because it felt really comfortable otherwise.
alwayslikethis 3y ago
I used Colemak, and I use unmodified vim bindings. Once you get used to it, it works just fine. I find that after the transition it starts to feel like I'm talking to vim with a shorthand language, rather than muscle memory associations with commands. Instead of the three keys, I now think 'ciw' if I need to change this word, and it isn't any harder to type than on qwerty. On colemak hjkl are still all accessible by your right hand, so the change isn't that bad, even if unintuitive at first.
- epiccoleman 3y ago
  > it starts to feel like I'm talking to vim with a shorthand language This is like, the whole _point_ of Vim to me - much less about muscle memory and more about mnemonic ways of interacting with text. `ciw` is "change inside word", `da{` is "delete a tag", `yat` is yank a tag, etc. t and f are "to" and "through" (I think "froo" for that one). vf; is "visually select thru the next semicolon" for example. The whole combination of motions and text objects is the real magic of Vim for me. Also the g ex command is pretty great too.
  - 3np 3y ago
    f: find
    - epiccoleman 3y ago
      Yes - but to me that doesn't capture the distinction between t and f as well (and with as much fun)
  - eviks 3y ago
    With more convenient keybinds you'd get the same associations, just with different keycaps/fingers (like cat would be cut a tag or xat could be aXe a tag), so it's not worth it using the bad defaults on account of this

JdeBP 3y ago

I've actually used terminals that didn't have cursor keys, as well as systems with original vi where the cursor keys didn't work because the sysop didn't have termcap set up correctly; and I regard it as somewhat masochistic to deliberately constrain oneself in this way, in the modern world where (in comparison) everyone (who has a serious keyboard) has cursor keys. Heck, home computers of the early 1980s had cursor keys. And nowadays we don't even have the excuse that there are some barmy terminals around that produce really odd character sequences from the cursor keys that we don't get configurations for out of the box. Even the world of terminals and terminal emulators is mostly DEC-ish now. I realize that people do it as an exercise, or out of curiosity, sometimes. But I have no intention of ever going back to that world. (-:

zamnos 3y ago
To each their own, but it's not that there aren't cursor keys (well, sometimes), but that the move off of home row is too disruptive, mentally. Same thing with the Thinkpad track point. it's not the most accurate, but it's worth it need because it's even closer to home row than even a touchpad.
folkrav 3y ago
I'm not sure I understand what's inherently contraining about using different keys to do the same things.

jawilson2 3y ago

> and fucking type strings of j's all over everything else I use I have vim navigation setup for navigating tmux, i.e. ctrl-a + h/j/k/l nav left, up, down, right. There are so many times I miss the ctrl-a, and just spam "kkk". I'm vaguely terrified I'm going to be reported to HR.