3 ms·

How do they make it a nightmare? Are we sure it's not just that 96% of business owners use Google maps or maybe Apple maps and don't even know what OpenStreetMa

How do they make it a nightmare? Are we sure it's not just that 96% of business owners use Google maps or maybe Apple maps and don't even know what OpenStreetMaps exists. I think this is more about network effects then anything. If they really want to break googles geo spacial business data monopoly. I think if Apple/Microsoft/OSM should band together and make a simple tool for business owners that can update your details on Google, Bing, Apple Maps, and osm simultaneously. Although I am not sure if Google exposes that through apis or not.

kpw94 3y ago
For starter, as a business owner, how do you claim full ownership of a given business on OSM? What prevents a nasty competitor from making daily false updates to your opening hours? If you're a verified business owner in a non-collaborative platform, you can update your holiday hours/one-off closure with a simple edit on that platform's business management page/API. How is OSM even in same category as Apple maps/bing/Google maps? Examples: - https://businessconnect.apple.com/ https://businessconnect.apple.com/ - https://www.bingplaces.com/ https://www.bingplaces.com/ - https://business.google.com/ https://business.google.com/
btilly 3y ago
I am very sure that OSM does not get this information because they make it hard for businesses to give it. I know this because figuring out how to get that information published was my job a few years ago. Specifically I was a developer for a company whose job was to update business information in Google Maps, Apple, Facebook and so on. We'd get the data from companies like Cheesecake Factory, Walmart and Trader Joe's, then we would update all of the sites for them. All of the sites have some sort of API or upload mechanism that makes it easy to do things like publish phone numbers, hours of operation, hours for specific departments and so on. All of them were happy to let us automate it. All were happy to accept data based on street addresses. I tried to make it work for OSM. It was a disaster. I have an address. Google et al understand that a street often has multiple names. If the address I was given named the street something else, Google took care of understanding that route 33 is also such and so street and they accepted the data. If I said that there was a restaurant inside of a mall, Google didn't insist that I know more than that. If I was publishing holiday hours, Google accepted us as the default authority. (And gave ways of resolving it if someone else disagreed.) OSM did NONE of that. It was all roadblocks. If I didn't have the One True Name that OSM in its wisdom determined was right, good luck matching on address. If I couldn't provide OSM with the outline of the restaurant on the floor plan, OSM had no way to accept that there was a restaurant in the mall. If a random OSM contributor had gone to the location and posted store hours, OSM refused to accept my claim of its reduced hours on Christmas Day. And so on. All of the brands that I named and more don't publish to OSM for one reason, and one reason only. OSM make it impossible for businesses to work with them in any useful way to provide that information. And therefore OSM is not on the list of sites that that data gets published to. In short, if it isn't perfect, OSM doesn't want your data. And the data off of a spreadsheet some business uses to manage this stuff usually is nothing like perfect. I respect how much work went into getting OSM just right. But they made it impossible for real businesses to work with them, and so they don't get that business data.

kpw94 3y ago

For starter, as a business owner, how do you claim full ownership of a given business on OSM? What prevents a nasty competitor from making daily false updates to your opening hours? If you're a verified business owner in a non-collaborative platform, you can update your holiday hours/one-off closure with a simple edit on that platform's business management page/API. How is OSM even in same category as Apple maps/bing/Google maps? Examples: - https://businessconnect.apple.com/ https://businessconnect.apple.com/ - https://www.bingplaces.com/ https://www.bingplaces.com/ - https://business.google.com/ https://business.google.com/

btilly 3y ago

I am very sure that OSM does not get this information because they make it hard for businesses to give it. I know this because figuring out how to get that information published was my job a few years ago. Specifically I was a developer for a company whose job was to update business information in Google Maps, Apple, Facebook and so on. We'd get the data from companies like Cheesecake Factory, Walmart and Trader Joe's, then we would update all of the sites for them. All of the sites have some sort of API or upload mechanism that makes it easy to do things like publish phone numbers, hours of operation, hours for specific departments and so on. All of them were happy to let us automate it. All were happy to accept data based on street addresses. I tried to make it work for OSM. It was a disaster. I have an address. Google et al understand that a street often has multiple names. If the address I was given named the street something else, Google took care of understanding that route 33 is also such and so street and they accepted the data. If I said that there was a restaurant inside of a mall, Google didn't insist that I know more than that. If I was publishing holiday hours, Google accepted us as the default authority. (And gave ways of resolving it if someone else disagreed.) OSM did NONE of that. It was all roadblocks. If I didn't have the One True Name that OSM in its wisdom determined was right, good luck matching on address. If I couldn't provide OSM with the outline of the restaurant on the floor plan, OSM had no way to accept that there was a restaurant in the mall. If a random OSM contributor had gone to the location and posted store hours, OSM refused to accept my claim of its reduced hours on Christmas Day. And so on. All of the brands that I named and more don't publish to OSM for one reason, and one reason only. OSM make it impossible for businesses to work with them in any useful way to provide that information. And therefore OSM is not on the list of sites that that data gets published to. In short, if it isn't perfect, OSM doesn't want your data. And the data off of a spreadsheet some business uses to manage this stuff usually is nothing like perfect. I respect how much work went into getting OSM just right. But they made it impossible for real businesses to work with them, and so they don't get that business data.