4 ms·

The data point is meant to be illustrative of broader habits and behaviors which put the lie to the absurd notion that there is robust pharmacovigilance being c

The data point is meant to be illustrative of broader habits and behaviors which put the lie to the absurd notion that there is robust pharmacovigilance being conducted on the COVID vaccines. So if we apply your line of reasoning across the board, why would any adverse event ever be recorded, followed up, or investigated? After all, bad things happen all the time, and we're giving out billions of doses. What do you think the typical bias of the typical doctor has been since the vaccine rollout started? Where did you get your figures for the likelihood of a cardiac event from the COVID vaccines? Were they stratified by age? Were they derived from trials conducted by the manufacturers, who we now know to have excluded cardiac events from the trial results for no apparent reason other than "couldn't possibly have been our Safe & Effective shots"? Why have excess deaths remained persistently high in countries which saw a high degree of vaccine uptake, when they should be expected to decline after a new contagious virus runs its course and the vast majority of a population gains exposure? If the answer is "Long COVID," then a.) why were the vaccines so ineffective in protecting against long-term sequelae, and b.) how is it possible to disambiguate the causes of deaths without, again, properly placebo-controlled RCTs? > When you give billions of people the vaccine you'll get basically everything happening after someone gets a vaccine including a death by train derailment. This is such a tendentious, dishonest argument. As though "hey maybe these shots which are known to cause a lot of people heart problems caused this sudden cardiac arrest in a 42 year old who had just taken them, I would bet no one even looked into it at all because everyone knew to trust the Safe & Effective Vaccine" is somehow comparable to spuriously linking them to a train derailment.

arcticbull 3y ago
> As though "hey maybe these shots which are known to cause a lot of people heart problems ..." Let me stop you're right there. This isn't true. The rest of your argument follows from this faulty premise. > There were 1,626 cases of myocarditis among more than 354 million primary doses given between December 2020 and August 2021. This research was published in the journal JAMA on January 25, 2022. [1] That is objectively and subjectively not "a lot." That's 1626 out of 354,000,000. 0.00045%. 0.45/100,000. > There were 37 cases of myocarditis among more than 81 million booster doses given between September 22, 2021, and February 6, 2022. This research was published by the CDC on February 11, 2022. [2] That is objectively and subjectively not "a lot." That's 37 out of 81,000,000. 0.000045%. 0.045/100,000. The reality is with 5.56B people vaccinated, if it had any effects, it would be clearly and plainly visible in population-level data. You are wrong, the monitoring is extensive, the vaccine is safe, and this is settled science. ergo, MSG. [1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788346 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788346 [2] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7107e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7107e1.htm
- VagueMag 3y ago
  The Thai prospective study of these shots in adolescents found biomarkers of cardiac disturbances in 3% of subjects who took them. That's not just a lot, it's a HELL of a lot. If the number is within even 1/100th of that for ~40 year olds it would still be 1 in 3,333, which is far higher than what used to be considered an acceptable adverse event rate. What's even more absurd is that that kind of study was never even conducted as part of the broad clinical trials in the first place. > The reality is with 5.56B people vaccinated, if it had any effects, it would be clearly and plainly visible in population-level data. And indeed it is, as I've already pointed out. Excess deaths are remaining stubbornly high in highly vaccinated countries. It's amazing to me that the CDC is leaving completely embarrassing numbers up like the ones you cite, but I suppose they have no shortage of suckers ready to believe and repeat them.
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    What on earth Thai study are you talking about? I provided my sources. > Excess deaths are remaining stubbornly high in highly vaccinated countries. That, not to put too fine a point on it, is because everyone became fat during COVID lockdowns. > About 42% of U.S. adults reported undesired weight gain in the first year of the pandemic, with 29 pounds gained on average, a recent survey shows. [1] An average increase of 29 pounds and a drinking problem for half the population is going to do a hell of a lot of the heavy lifting (pun intended) in regards to excess mortality. I look forward to your theories on the moon landing, cadet ;) Again this is all proportionality bias. Excess mortality is up because we're fatter now. Substantially. Off an already high baseline. And we drank a lot. [1] https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2021/03/one-year-pandemic-stress https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2021/03/one-year-pan...
    - VagueMag 3y ago
      That Thai study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36006288/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36006288/ Looks like the actual number was 2.33%, which is still completely godawful. Funny how you haven't heard of it! If you actually believe the CDC when they claim there have been <100 cases of myocarditis from these shots I have a bridge in New York to sell you.

arcticbull 3y ago

> As though "hey maybe these shots which are known to cause a lot of people heart problems ..." Let me stop you're right there. This isn't true. The rest of your argument follows from this faulty premise. > There were 1,626 cases of myocarditis among more than 354 million primary doses given between December 2020 and August 2021. This research was published in the journal JAMA on January 25, 2022. [1] That is objectively and subjectively not "a lot." That's 1626 out of 354,000,000. 0.00045%. 0.45/100,000. > There were 37 cases of myocarditis among more than 81 million booster doses given between September 22, 2021, and February 6, 2022. This research was published by the CDC on February 11, 2022. [2] That is objectively and subjectively not "a lot." That's 37 out of 81,000,000. 0.000045%. 0.045/100,000. The reality is with 5.56B people vaccinated, if it had any effects, it would be clearly and plainly visible in population-level data. You are wrong, the monitoring is extensive, the vaccine is safe, and this is settled science. ergo, MSG. [1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788346 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788346 [2] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7107e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7107e1.htm

VagueMag 3y ago
The Thai prospective study of these shots in adolescents found biomarkers of cardiac disturbances in 3% of subjects who took them. That's not just a lot, it's a HELL of a lot. If the number is within even 1/100th of that for ~40 year olds it would still be 1 in 3,333, which is far higher than what used to be considered an acceptable adverse event rate. What's even more absurd is that that kind of study was never even conducted as part of the broad clinical trials in the first place. > The reality is with 5.56B people vaccinated, if it had any effects, it would be clearly and plainly visible in population-level data. And indeed it is, as I've already pointed out. Excess deaths are remaining stubbornly high in highly vaccinated countries. It's amazing to me that the CDC is leaving completely embarrassing numbers up like the ones you cite, but I suppose they have no shortage of suckers ready to believe and repeat them.
- arcticbull 3y ago
  What on earth Thai study are you talking about? I provided my sources. > Excess deaths are remaining stubbornly high in highly vaccinated countries. That, not to put too fine a point on it, is because everyone became fat during COVID lockdowns. > About 42% of U.S. adults reported undesired weight gain in the first year of the pandemic, with 29 pounds gained on average, a recent survey shows. [1] An average increase of 29 pounds and a drinking problem for half the population is going to do a hell of a lot of the heavy lifting (pun intended) in regards to excess mortality. I look forward to your theories on the moon landing, cadet ;) Again this is all proportionality bias. Excess mortality is up because we're fatter now. Substantially. Off an already high baseline. And we drank a lot. [1] https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2021/03/one-year-pandemic-stress https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2021/03/one-year-pan...
  - VagueMag 3y ago
    That Thai study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36006288/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36006288/ Looks like the actual number was 2.33%, which is still completely godawful. Funny how you haven't heard of it! If you actually believe the CDC when they claim there have been <100 cases of myocarditis from these shots I have a bridge in New York to sell you.