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Funny, those languages rely heavily on the Java ecosystem and libraries, and they better hope the Java ecosystem keeps thriving, improving current libraries and

Funny, those languages rely heavily on the Java ecosystem and libraries, and they better hope the Java ecosystem keeps thriving, improving current libraries and producing new libraries else they become impractical. Show me your pure Clojure production grade http servers or database drivers ;)

koito17 3y ago
>Show me your pure Clojure production grade database drivers Depends what you mean by "database driver", but what disqualifies XTDB or Datomic, both of which have use outside of Clojure yet are implemented entirely in Clojure with the exception of the Java wrappers so you can use them naturally within Java or Kotlin? Even then, talking about "pure Clojure" is a non-starter because Clojure is not a self-hosted language (yes, Java is self-hosted if you consider Jikes RVM, a JVM implementation in pure Java). Even if Java ecosystem were to dwindle, people can rely on the JavaScript, .NET, or Dart ecosystems thanks to ClojureScript, ClojureCLR, and ClojureDart existing. I use ClojureScript daily and am not really affected by what happens in Java land. With that said, I always welcome improvements to the JVM, because I actually like the Java ecosystem; it's the only one that doesn't make me split hairs...despite the dreaded module system.
- Scarbutt 3y ago
  Those two databases rely heavily on Java libraries, libraries that would make no sense and be impractical to implement in Clojure.
  - koito17 3y ago
    > rely heavily on Java libraries If you're referring to the storage engines, those are not Java, and even then, most storage engines of a database will resort to a lower level language because of the need to care about memory layout and things that are simply not exposed to you in a high-level language like Clojure (or Java, unless you are somehow able to use Jikes RVM in production, I guess, but I'm not aware of ANYONE using a Java storage engine atop Jikes)
pjmlp 3y ago
This is what I hate in guest language communities (a subset of them), they literally spit in the ecosystem that makes their beloved language possible in first place. Granted, not everyone is like that and there are many nice folks, but those vocal ones, oh boy.

koito17 3y ago

>Show me your pure Clojure production grade database drivers Depends what you mean by "database driver", but what disqualifies XTDB or Datomic, both of which have use outside of Clojure yet are implemented entirely in Clojure with the exception of the Java wrappers so you can use them naturally within Java or Kotlin? Even then, talking about "pure Clojure" is a non-starter because Clojure is not a self-hosted language (yes, Java is self-hosted if you consider Jikes RVM, a JVM implementation in pure Java). Even if Java ecosystem were to dwindle, people can rely on the JavaScript, .NET, or Dart ecosystems thanks to ClojureScript, ClojureCLR, and ClojureDart existing. I use ClojureScript daily and am not really affected by what happens in Java land. With that said, I always welcome improvements to the JVM, because I actually like the Java ecosystem; it's the only one that doesn't make me split hairs...despite the dreaded module system.

Scarbutt 3y ago
Those two databases rely heavily on Java libraries, libraries that would make no sense and be impractical to implement in Clojure.
- koito17 3y ago
  > rely heavily on Java libraries If you're referring to the storage engines, those are not Java, and even then, most storage engines of a database will resort to a lower level language because of the need to care about memory layout and things that are simply not exposed to you in a high-level language like Clojure (or Java, unless you are somehow able to use Jikes RVM in production, I guess, but I'm not aware of ANYONE using a Java storage engine atop Jikes)

pjmlp 3y ago

This is what I hate in guest language communities (a subset of them), they literally spit in the ecosystem that makes their beloved language possible in first place. Granted, not everyone is like that and there are many nice folks, but those vocal ones, oh boy.