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Not to intend to hijack this thread with a sideline, but I find it interesting that the author's problems were caused by the mushrooms he consumed in Amsterdam,

Not to intend to hijack this thread with a sideline, but I find it interesting that the author's problems were caused by the mushrooms he consumed in Amsterdam, at a time when doing so was presumably still legal in The Netherlands. In other words, he did nothing illegal at all. I spent some time in the US as an intern at a large corporation and part of the admission procedure (on the day of arrival) was a drug test. My contract clearly stated that my employment was contingent on a negative outcome of that drug test. I happen to be from The Netherlands, a country where as an adult I am allowed to smoke weed should I choose to (even though I don't). Apart from the legality of this, would they really have sent me back for doing something that is legal in my country? The test would actually have detected any weed consumed up to 6 weeks in advance if I remember correctly. I got the notice perhaps 4 weeks before the test, so if I would have been a regular smoker, it would have been a quite likely outcome. Can you really be held accountable for doing nothing wrong?

Swizec 15y ago
Drugs are a touchy subject in the US. I imagine nobody in Europe would do a hire/don't-hire decision based on a drug test. In fact everyone I've ever worked for here in Slovenia where weed is illegal were pretty open about their history (or not so much history) of weed use. It's very culturally accepted in most of Europe that you smoke weed or have at least at some point in your life. If you claim to have gotten through high school and college without at least trying weed ... I don't think anyone will take you seriously. Even less so if it happens to be true. Why are americans like this when it comes to drugs? I don't know, and I think most noncorporate types aren't like that in the US either. As for being held accountable for doing nothing wrong ... would you hire somebody who drinks half a bottle of vodka a day? They're doing nothing wrong mind you.
- khuey 15y ago
  It varies widely in the US depending on where you are and what kind of work you're doing. Many Silicon Valley tech companies don't give a shit, but try working for Federal contractors (many of which are required by law to drug test their employees) and you'll get a completely different experience.
- micheljansen 15y ago
  > If you claim to have gotten through high school and college without at least trying weed ... I don't think anyone will take you seriously. Interestingly, I know a lot of people in The Netherlands who have not and will never smoke weed, whereas in the USA I had the feeling that nearly everyone (especially the college crowd) was a stoner. If I were to give my non-expert experience, I would guess that about 50% of the people I met in the USA had ever smoked weed, compared to 25-30% in the NL. > As for being held accountable for doing nothing wrong ... would you hire somebody who drinks half a bottle of vodka a day? They're doing nothing wrong mind you. Someone who drinks half a bottle of wodka a day is doing something wrong. They are alcoholic and probably not able to function in any job, let alone a job that expects someone to behave responsibly. Wrong <> illegal.
  - Alex3917 15y ago
    "If I were to give my non-expert experience, I would guess that about 50% of the people I met in the USA had ever smoked weed" It's actually roughly 85% of people in the US smoke weed at some point in their lives, as you can see here on p. 103: http://www.monitoringthefuture.org/pubs/monographs/vol2_2009.pdf http://www.monitoringthefuture.org/pubs/monographs/vol2_2009... (You need to adjust upwards a couple of points to account for those who don't make it to 11th grade, who are assumed to use drugs at 50% higher rates, and also to account for a couple other factors that are discussed in the methodology.)
    - jebblue 15y ago
      >> It's actually roughly 85% of people in the US smoke weed at some point in their lives, as you can see here on p. 103: Not my family, not most of my friends. Edit: For my circle the estimate is totally wrong, beyond inaccurate. I doubt I'm in the minority.
      - Retric 15y ago
        And 85% seems really low to me. Out of the 20 people in my 10th grade honors science class I was the only student who had not smoked weed at least once. After that I have asked many people and the overwhelming majority have said they smoked pot at some point in time. PS: 15% of the population is a lot of people, you would expect to find large clumps of people that don't smoke.
- CJefferson 15y ago
  I think you might have an overly drug-enthusiastic view of Europe. I live in Scotland currently and went to university. I haven't done weed and neither have, as far as I know, around 50% of my friends.
  - Swizec 15y ago
    It probably depends on the place, it just seems very normal where I live. Young people smoke weed, just the way it is. Even cops have stopped really caring when it's done at open-air events. But even when you consider that perhaps "only" 50% of your peers have ever tried weed ... what does it say about an employer (or anyone) who readily dismisses half of the population like that?
- philwelch 15y ago
  Lots of people accomplished great things despite heavy, regular use of alcohol: Boris Yeltsin, Winston Churchill, Ulysses S. Grant, Christopher Hitchens, Edgar Allen Poe, Alexander the Great, Ernest Hemingway.
  - ansgri 15y ago
    It's sort of weird to find Yeltsin with Alexander the Great and Ernest Hemingway.
    - philwelch 15y ago
      Perhaps if you only remember the bulk of his presidency, but he shepherded the end of the Soviet Union as much as anyone.
- democracy 15y ago
  It's roughly a six-pack of beer. There are enough people who drink more than that and perform just fine. 1/2 of 0.5L 40% alc. vodka = 100gr of ethanol ~20 grams of ethanol per 330ml bottle of beer. or ~1 750ml bottle of wine.
- NegativeOne 15y ago
  As long as people can come to work and work efficiently and with a good attitude what they do on their own time is their own business. Depending on weight and tolerance, a half a bottle of vodka a day isn't that much at all to some people.
WA 15y ago
As he states in the blog post, it's not about this kind of activity being legal or illegal in certain countries, it is obviously about the potential (real or not) threat of a flashback from halucinogene intake. It's comparable to donating blood. If you had Malaria once, you cannot donate blood anymore (at least in Germany). But getting Malaria is not illegal :)
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- micheljansen 15y ago
  Absolutely true. I did not mean to imply that the original post was about legality. It just reminded me of my own experiences and was wondering how people felt about it.
emmelaich 15y ago
Possibly minor point: Weed is not legal in the Netherlands. It's tolerated but against the law. The law will be used against shops (and has) if you're too noisy, open too late, etc.

Swizec 15y ago

Drugs are a touchy subject in the US. I imagine nobody in Europe would do a hire/don't-hire decision based on a drug test. In fact everyone I've ever worked for here in Slovenia where weed is illegal were pretty open about their history (or not so much history) of weed use. It's very culturally accepted in most of Europe that you smoke weed or have at least at some point in your life. If you claim to have gotten through high school and college without at least trying weed ... I don't think anyone will take you seriously. Even less so if it happens to be true. Why are americans like this when it comes to drugs? I don't know, and I think most noncorporate types aren't like that in the US either. As for being held accountable for doing nothing wrong ... would you hire somebody who drinks half a bottle of vodka a day? They're doing nothing wrong mind you.

khuey 15y ago
It varies widely in the US depending on where you are and what kind of work you're doing. Many Silicon Valley tech companies don't give a shit, but try working for Federal contractors (many of which are required by law to drug test their employees) and you'll get a completely different experience.
micheljansen 15y ago
> If you claim to have gotten through high school and college without at least trying weed ... I don't think anyone will take you seriously. Interestingly, I know a lot of people in The Netherlands who have not and will never smoke weed, whereas in the USA I had the feeling that nearly everyone (especially the college crowd) was a stoner. If I were to give my non-expert experience, I would guess that about 50% of the people I met in the USA had ever smoked weed, compared to 25-30% in the NL. > As for being held accountable for doing nothing wrong ... would you hire somebody who drinks half a bottle of vodka a day? They're doing nothing wrong mind you. Someone who drinks half a bottle of wodka a day is doing something wrong. They are alcoholic and probably not able to function in any job, let alone a job that expects someone to behave responsibly. Wrong <> illegal.
- Alex3917 15y ago
  "If I were to give my non-expert experience, I would guess that about 50% of the people I met in the USA had ever smoked weed" It's actually roughly 85% of people in the US smoke weed at some point in their lives, as you can see here on p. 103: http://www.monitoringthefuture.org/pubs/monographs/vol2_2009.pdf http://www.monitoringthefuture.org/pubs/monographs/vol2_2009... (You need to adjust upwards a couple of points to account for those who don't make it to 11th grade, who are assumed to use drugs at 50% higher rates, and also to account for a couple other factors that are discussed in the methodology.)
  - jebblue 15y ago
    >> It's actually roughly 85% of people in the US smoke weed at some point in their lives, as you can see here on p. 103: Not my family, not most of my friends. Edit: For my circle the estimate is totally wrong, beyond inaccurate. I doubt I'm in the minority.
    - Retric 15y ago
      And 85% seems really low to me. Out of the 20 people in my 10th grade honors science class I was the only student who had not smoked weed at least once. After that I have asked many people and the overwhelming majority have said they smoked pot at some point in time. PS: 15% of the population is a lot of people, you would expect to find large clumps of people that don't smoke.
CJefferson 15y ago
I think you might have an overly drug-enthusiastic view of Europe. I live in Scotland currently and went to university. I haven't done weed and neither have, as far as I know, around 50% of my friends.
- Swizec 15y ago
  It probably depends on the place, it just seems very normal where I live. Young people smoke weed, just the way it is. Even cops have stopped really caring when it's done at open-air events. But even when you consider that perhaps "only" 50% of your peers have ever tried weed ... what does it say about an employer (or anyone) who readily dismisses half of the population like that?
philwelch 15y ago
Lots of people accomplished great things despite heavy, regular use of alcohol: Boris Yeltsin, Winston Churchill, Ulysses S. Grant, Christopher Hitchens, Edgar Allen Poe, Alexander the Great, Ernest Hemingway.
- ansgri 15y ago
  It's sort of weird to find Yeltsin with Alexander the Great and Ernest Hemingway.
  - philwelch 15y ago
    Perhaps if you only remember the bulk of his presidency, but he shepherded the end of the Soviet Union as much as anyone.
democracy 15y ago
It's roughly a six-pack of beer. There are enough people who drink more than that and perform just fine. 1/2 of 0.5L 40% alc. vodka = 100gr of ethanol ~20 grams of ethanol per 330ml bottle of beer. or ~1 750ml bottle of wine.
NegativeOne 15y ago
As long as people can come to work and work efficiently and with a good attitude what they do on their own time is their own business. Depending on weight and tolerance, a half a bottle of vodka a day isn't that much at all to some people.

WA 15y ago

As he states in the blog post, it's not about this kind of activity being legal or illegal in certain countries, it is obviously about the potential (real or not) threat of a flashback from halucinogene intake. It's comparable to donating blood. If you had Malaria once, you cannot donate blood anymore (at least in Germany). But getting Malaria is not illegal :)

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
micheljansen 15y ago
Absolutely true. I did not mean to imply that the original post was about legality. It just reminded me of my own experiences and was wondering how people felt about it.

emmelaich 15y ago

Possibly minor point: Weed is not legal in the Netherlands. It's tolerated but against the law. The law will be used against shops (and has) if you're too noisy, open too late, etc.