5 ms·

What's wrong with incels? are they bad people because they can't find a relationship? what?

by CyberWraith 3y ago

fknorangesite 3y ago
Playing dumb is not a good look.
- CyberWraith 3y ago
  Still haven't answered what's wrong with incels
  - bluefirebrand 3y ago
    Male incels are generally very miserable people with a lot of mental health struggles. The implication is that society is also very hostile to men and boys right now, demonstrated by them becoming incels in large numbers.
  - vgatherps 3y ago
    incel generally isn't used literally to refer to all people who want to have sex but can't, but a male subset of said group who tend to hold really strong beliefs along the lines of "women won't sleep with me because they're bad", "women only like the bad dudes not nice guys like me", etc.
- 1827163 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - burnished 3y ago
    None of your posts look flagged to me, but I suspect it was automatic due to votes or flagging which was likely from people responding to your attitude, which is histrionic in its defense of a group defined by attitudes others find loathsome.
    - 1827163 3y ago
      Thankfully the flag was removed. And I don't believe the post actually gets censored, it just gets hidden from non logged-in users, which is great. I don't consider that real censorship at all. And an exceptionally dramatic writing style is somewhat justified in response to a moral panic which is likely to end up destroying many innocent people's lives, people who have done nothing wrong. As countless other moral panics have done throughout history. Because, I know from past experience, that only a small minority of these 'incels' have done anything seriously wrong, and the rest are going to end up on government watchlists for expressing the wrong political opinions. Political opinions that have been deemed inappropriate by pressure groups which are influencing the government to enforce their agendas. And because of the lack of separation of powers nowadays, we will have intelligence agencies such as GCHQ monitoring the Internet, using powers that should be only used against foreign states, turned against the general public to hunt down these 'incels'. Yes, these pressure groups have so much sway over the government, they can even eventually get GCHQ to enforce their agendas. Many of these pressure groups being fronts for those with radical feminist or evangelical christian agendas, i.e. they are the modern equivalent of puritans. This stuff plays out over the decades, and finally we got to the point where we are now, after extensive lobbying by these groups for a very long time indeed. And it's ruining society, these pressure groups are in effect, a national security issue and nothing is being done about them by the government. When in fact it should be a top priority. After all, they are extremist organizations.
ben_w 3y ago
As with all groups, the loudest are the least well-adjusted. Thus, while it may linguistically be the western version of some exotic-sounding Japanese word that translates as "single adult", the implication is the exact opposite causality of your question: they are single because they are bad, not vice-versa.
- mrangle 3y ago
  And yet it applies to everyone who is without a partner. Not just to the loud ones. Your supposed implication seems to be something that another certain loud group desires. Not something that can be inferred by any interpretation of the English language that I was ever able to discern.
  - burnished 3y ago
    Absolutely not. When I was single and looking but not finding I was not 'involuntarily celibate', thats a designation you self select into. Being an incel is something you choose. Everyone else just isn't having sex.
vkou 3y ago
They aren't bad people because they can't find a relationship. But a lot of them act in bad ways because they believe/have been told to believe that their difficulty in finding a relationship is someone else's fault. This often makes them utterly insufferable to be around, which is a positive feedback loop. And then, hey, look, here's a disaffected community of angry young men, all feeling that society has taken a great big dump on them, all ripe for radicalization by some cynical ideologue.
nemothekid 3y ago
>are they bad people because they can't find a relationship? They are bad people because incel forums are normally filled with crab-bucket mentality users who regurgitate highly misogynistic tropes up until the edge of being openly violent to women. If you are unable to see the misogyny towards woman in many incel communities for whatever reason, at the very least I would say that they are bad for men because they tend to grow by reinforcing the idea that their community will never be good enough, that there is nothing that they can do, and it is the fault of society for all their problems.
- CyberWraith 3y ago
  Incels have killed more men than women, look up Elliot Rodger among others. I don't think anyone's a misogynist.
  - vlunkr 3y ago
    This may not be the solid defense you think it is.
    - CyberWraith 3y ago
      Why isn't it a solid defense?
      - flangola7 3y ago
        Because killing isn't a zero sum game.
      - vlunkr 3y ago
        "They don't seem that bad, they've murdered more men than women"
  - nemothekid 3y ago
    I don't know why you think this is a good response. I'm familiar with his manifesto. They were "bad guys" who girls liked instead of him "nice guys" like him. It's the same crab bucket mentality all incels have that isn't healthy - instead of introspection, it's blaming other people for your own personality traits. The assumption that woman only like "mean, bad men" is misogynistic in it's own right. If you are going to sit here and pretend Elliot's manfesto wasn't misogynist, then so be it, there's no point to carry water for these guys.
scambier 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel The first paragraph speaks for itself. The whole "involuntary" part of "incel" implies that your celibacy - the fact that people don't want you as a partner - is totally out of your control. Incels are the epitome of "nice guys".
- CyberWraith 3y ago
  Our looks and society's beauty standards are not in our hands. Seems like they're right.
  - flangola7 3y ago
    Men have it much, much, easier in the beauty standards department then women. If a man can't get laid his looks have relatively little to do with it. There are fat short dudes out there absolutely killing it in the romance world. Personality, empathy, and good attitude are worth their weight in gold.
    - CyberWraith 3y ago
      Women are expected to not be fat, but men are expected to be tall. It's easy to hit the gym, but height is impossible to change. It's also socially acceptable for women to fake good looks by wearing makeup and high heels, but for men, it's not socially acceptable. So yeah, women have it much easier beauty standards.
  - scambier 3y ago
    If beauty was the only metric of attractiveness or likeability, sure. Except that incels are not celibate because they're ugly, they're celibate because they're convinced that women don't want them because of their looks. That thinking makes them entitled people with an overall terrible personality. That's why they can't get laid.
burnished 3y ago
People who havent found a relationship are just people. People that base their identity on being an incel, in which celibacy is a status that is inflicted on them, tend to hold a cluster of beliefs that express as anger towards women as a class (for withholding sex from them) and an unwillingness to engage in honest self reflection and growth. It is common to see some one with that mindset to see outcomes as inevitable or as a function of things wholly out of their control such as looks or a perceived social dynamic involving 'chads' and 'staceys' that they are ineluctably locked out of. Just some real bad vibes.

What's wrong with incels? are they bad people because they can't find a relationship? what?

fknorangesite 3y ago

Playing dumb is not a good look.

CyberWraith 3y ago
Still haven't answered what's wrong with incels
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  Male incels are generally very miserable people with a lot of mental health struggles. The implication is that society is also very hostile to men and boys right now, demonstrated by them becoming incels in large numbers.
- vgatherps 3y ago
  incel generally isn't used literally to refer to all people who want to have sex but can't, but a male subset of said group who tend to hold really strong beliefs along the lines of "women won't sleep with me because they're bad", "women only like the bad dudes not nice guys like me", etc.
1827163 3y ago
[flagged]
- burnished 3y ago
  None of your posts look flagged to me, but I suspect it was automatic due to votes or flagging which was likely from people responding to your attitude, which is histrionic in its defense of a group defined by attitudes others find loathsome.
  - 1827163 3y ago
    Thankfully the flag was removed. And I don't believe the post actually gets censored, it just gets hidden from non logged-in users, which is great. I don't consider that real censorship at all. And an exceptionally dramatic writing style is somewhat justified in response to a moral panic which is likely to end up destroying many innocent people's lives, people who have done nothing wrong. As countless other moral panics have done throughout history. Because, I know from past experience, that only a small minority of these 'incels' have done anything seriously wrong, and the rest are going to end up on government watchlists for expressing the wrong political opinions. Political opinions that have been deemed inappropriate by pressure groups which are influencing the government to enforce their agendas. And because of the lack of separation of powers nowadays, we will have intelligence agencies such as GCHQ monitoring the Internet, using powers that should be only used against foreign states, turned against the general public to hunt down these 'incels'. Yes, these pressure groups have so much sway over the government, they can even eventually get GCHQ to enforce their agendas. Many of these pressure groups being fronts for those with radical feminist or evangelical christian agendas, i.e. they are the modern equivalent of puritans. This stuff plays out over the decades, and finally we got to the point where we are now, after extensive lobbying by these groups for a very long time indeed. And it's ruining society, these pressure groups are in effect, a national security issue and nothing is being done about them by the government. When in fact it should be a top priority. After all, they are extremist organizations.

ben_w 3y ago

As with all groups, the loudest are the least well-adjusted. Thus, while it may linguistically be the western version of some exotic-sounding Japanese word that translates as "single adult", the implication is the exact opposite causality of your question: they are single because they are bad, not vice-versa.

mrangle 3y ago
And yet it applies to everyone who is without a partner. Not just to the loud ones. Your supposed implication seems to be something that another certain loud group desires. Not something that can be inferred by any interpretation of the English language that I was ever able to discern.
- burnished 3y ago
  Absolutely not. When I was single and looking but not finding I was not 'involuntarily celibate', thats a designation you self select into. Being an incel is something you choose. Everyone else just isn't having sex.

vkou 3y ago

They aren't bad people because they can't find a relationship. But a lot of them act in bad ways because they believe/have been told to believe that their difficulty in finding a relationship is someone else's fault. This often makes them utterly insufferable to be around, which is a positive feedback loop. And then, hey, look, here's a disaffected community of angry young men, all feeling that society has taken a great big dump on them, all ripe for radicalization by some cynical ideologue.

nemothekid 3y ago

>are they bad people because they can't find a relationship? They are bad people because incel forums are normally filled with crab-bucket mentality users who regurgitate highly misogynistic tropes up until the edge of being openly violent to women. If you are unable to see the misogyny towards woman in many incel communities for whatever reason, at the very least I would say that they are bad for men because they tend to grow by reinforcing the idea that their community will never be good enough, that there is nothing that they can do, and it is the fault of society for all their problems.

CyberWraith 3y ago
Incels have killed more men than women, look up Elliot Rodger among others. I don't think anyone's a misogynist.
- vlunkr 3y ago
  This may not be the solid defense you think it is.
  - CyberWraith 3y ago
    Why isn't it a solid defense?
    - flangola7 3y ago
      Because killing isn't a zero sum game.
    - vlunkr 3y ago
      "They don't seem that bad, they've murdered more men than women"
- nemothekid 3y ago
  I don't know why you think this is a good response. I'm familiar with his manifesto. They were "bad guys" who girls liked instead of him "nice guys" like him. It's the same crab bucket mentality all incels have that isn't healthy - instead of introspection, it's blaming other people for your own personality traits. The assumption that woman only like "mean, bad men" is misogynistic in it's own right. If you are going to sit here and pretend Elliot's manfesto wasn't misogynist, then so be it, there's no point to carry water for these guys.

scambier 3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel The first paragraph speaks for itself. The whole "involuntary" part of "incel" implies that your celibacy - the fact that people don't want you as a partner - is totally out of your control. Incels are the epitome of "nice guys".

CyberWraith 3y ago
Our looks and society's beauty standards are not in our hands. Seems like they're right.
- flangola7 3y ago
  Men have it much, much, easier in the beauty standards department then women. If a man can't get laid his looks have relatively little to do with it. There are fat short dudes out there absolutely killing it in the romance world. Personality, empathy, and good attitude are worth their weight in gold.
  - CyberWraith 3y ago
    Women are expected to not be fat, but men are expected to be tall. It's easy to hit the gym, but height is impossible to change. It's also socially acceptable for women to fake good looks by wearing makeup and high heels, but for men, it's not socially acceptable. So yeah, women have it much easier beauty standards.
- scambier 3y ago
  If beauty was the only metric of attractiveness or likeability, sure. Except that incels are not celibate because they're ugly, they're celibate because they're convinced that women don't want them because of their looks. That thinking makes them entitled people with an overall terrible personality. That's why they can't get laid.

burnished 3y ago

People who havent found a relationship are just people. People that base their identity on being an incel, in which celibacy is a status that is inflicted on them, tend to hold a cluster of beliefs that express as anger towards women as a class (for withholding sex from them) and an unwillingness to engage in honest self reflection and growth. It is common to see some one with that mindset to see outcomes as inevitable or as a function of things wholly out of their control such as looks or a perceived social dynamic involving 'chads' and 'staceys' that they are ineluctably locked out of. Just some real bad vibes.