3 ms·

it'll be fun to see the pikachu face when engineers are expected to do more, with the aid of these tools, but are not paid any more money.

com2kid 4y ago
Kind of like every other improvement in technology? From interactive terminals, to compilers, to graphical debuggers? Nothing new there. What productivity improvements have opened up is more opportunities for developers. Larger and more complex systems can be built using better tooling.
- endisneigh 4y ago
  > Larger and more complex systems can be built using better tooling. to what end, make rich people richer?
  - com2kid 4y ago
    > to what end, make rich people richer? So, in perfect theory land, people get paid because they provide value. That obviously breaks down at the extremes. But, for sake of example, let's take Uber, super easy to hate on them, but they have had a measurable impact on reducing deaths from drunk driving. That obviously provides a lot of value to people. Likewise, it is hard to overstate the value people have gained from smartphones, Apple has made a lot of money but they have also provided a lot of value. Arguments over if the individual value brought is long term good or bad for society are a separate topic, but people value their iPhones and therefor they pay for them. No way could something as complicated as an iPhone have been made with 1970s software engineering technology.
    - endisneigh 4y ago
      I’m not arguing that. I’m saying the bar is higher and pay relative to value has decreased for all other than at the upper end. Easiest way to think about this is look at percentage revenue paid to engineers.
codq 4y ago
If they’re able to produce twice the work in half the time, wouldn’t it make sense to pay them less?
- photochemsyn 4y ago
  In that situation it would be reasonable to expect to be paid twice as much while also being able to devote half the working day to personal/open-source projects.
int_19h 4y ago
The nice thing about the new tools is that you can radicalize them by talking to them.

com2kid 4y ago

Kind of like every other improvement in technology? From interactive terminals, to compilers, to graphical debuggers? Nothing new there. What productivity improvements have opened up is more opportunities for developers. Larger and more complex systems can be built using better tooling.

endisneigh 4y ago
> Larger and more complex systems can be built using better tooling. to what end, make rich people richer?
- com2kid 4y ago
  > to what end, make rich people richer? So, in perfect theory land, people get paid because they provide value. That obviously breaks down at the extremes. But, for sake of example, let's take Uber, super easy to hate on them, but they have had a measurable impact on reducing deaths from drunk driving. That obviously provides a lot of value to people. Likewise, it is hard to overstate the value people have gained from smartphones, Apple has made a lot of money but they have also provided a lot of value. Arguments over if the individual value brought is long term good or bad for society are a separate topic, but people value their iPhones and therefor they pay for them. No way could something as complicated as an iPhone have been made with 1970s software engineering technology.
  - endisneigh 4y ago
    I’m not arguing that. I’m saying the bar is higher and pay relative to value has decreased for all other than at the upper end. Easiest way to think about this is look at percentage revenue paid to engineers.

codq 4y ago

If they’re able to produce twice the work in half the time, wouldn’t it make sense to pay them less?

photochemsyn 4y ago
In that situation it would be reasonable to expect to be paid twice as much while also being able to devote half the working day to personal/open-source projects.

int_19h 4y ago

The nice thing about the new tools is that you can radicalize them by talking to them.