4 ms·

When you have a history of lying and running malevolent information operations, plus invading your neighbors on multiple occasions... yeah, you kinda lose the b

When you have a history of lying and running malevolent information operations, plus invading your neighbors on multiple occasions... yeah, you kinda lose the benefit of the doubt. Your comment looks like an information operation itself. As far as I can tell, the only claims that the drones "tried to kill Putin" come from Russian state media.

brabel 4y ago
When you start accusing someone or a country of everything, it's not them who are losing the benefit of the doubt. It's you who are losing any credibility. > As far as I can tell, the only claims that the drones "tried to kill Putin" come from Russian state media. Well, I was reporting what the news said, and it was definitely not the Russian media.
mc32 4y ago
News: More than one country is involved in propaganda and disinformation and information and narrative shaping in the world.
LetsGetTechnicl 4y ago
You do realize that the US government itself has a history of lying, running malevolent information operations and invading other countries in order to de-stabilize them and install friendly dictators? That is why I don't buy this China and Russia scare tactics. Everyone's doing it.
- cjensen 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
  - bmacho 4y ago
    It's more of a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterexample https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterexample
lesuorac 4y ago
> you kinda lose the benefit of the doubt. Losing benefit of the doubt doesn't mean you're guilty. It just means when Russia accused the UK [1] of blowing up the pipeline you can't trust them. Or when Russia accuses the US [2] of blowing up the pipeline you can't trust them. It doesn't mean the US or UK didn't do it; it just means Russian claims are not evidence and you'd probably be better off just completely ignoring them so that it doesn't taint any opinions. [1]: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-british-navy-personnel-blew-up-nord-stream-gas-pipelines-2022-10-29/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-british-nav... [2]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-09/russia-blames-us-for-nord-stream-blasts-threatens-consequences https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-09/russia-bl...
revelio 4y ago
> running malevolent information operations They might be doing this. I'd be tempted, if I were Putin. But it's pretty clear that 90%+ of all claims that Russia is doing this turn out to be malevolent information operations by our own side. Example: Hamilton 68, supposedly a website that tracked Russian "information operations" on Twitter. Except it turned out to be pure, unadulterated garbage from a US think tank that was labelling Americans who worked night shifts as Russians. That didn't stop the media reporting it as "russian disinfo" for years, and when the truth finally came out, refusing to report on their own failed reporting and complicity. There's tons of stuff like that. If a western source is making a claim about Russian misinformation, it's pretty much a dead cert thing that they're making it up.
faeriechangling 4y ago
Other than the "your neighbours" part you literally just described America... and technically we can include the "your neighbours" part too if we're willing to look far enough backwards. Anyways I'm hardly savvy enough to know who did what and what was faked through the fog of war and all the war propaganda, but "If the Russians say down, they are disreputable invaders, so we must say up" is not a very good mode of analysis for teasing out the truth.

brabel 4y ago

When you start accusing someone or a country of everything, it's not them who are losing the benefit of the doubt. It's you who are losing any credibility. > As far as I can tell, the only claims that the drones "tried to kill Putin" come from Russian state media. Well, I was reporting what the news said, and it was definitely not the Russian media.

mc32 4y ago

News: More than one country is involved in propaganda and disinformation and information and narrative shaping in the world.

LetsGetTechnicl 4y ago

You do realize that the US government itself has a history of lying, running malevolent information operations and invading other countries in order to de-stabilize them and install friendly dictators? That is why I don't buy this China and Russia scare tactics. Everyone's doing it.

cjensen 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- bmacho 4y ago
  It's more of a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterexample https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterexample

lesuorac 4y ago

> you kinda lose the benefit of the doubt. Losing benefit of the doubt doesn't mean you're guilty. It just means when Russia accused the UK [1] of blowing up the pipeline you can't trust them. Or when Russia accuses the US [2] of blowing up the pipeline you can't trust them. It doesn't mean the US or UK didn't do it; it just means Russian claims are not evidence and you'd probably be better off just completely ignoring them so that it doesn't taint any opinions. [1]: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-british-navy-personnel-blew-up-nord-stream-gas-pipelines-2022-10-29/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-british-nav... [2]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-09/russia-blames-us-for-nord-stream-blasts-threatens-consequences https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-09/russia-bl...

revelio 4y ago

> running malevolent information operations They might be doing this. I'd be tempted, if I were Putin. But it's pretty clear that 90%+ of all claims that Russia is doing this turn out to be malevolent information operations by our own side. Example: Hamilton 68, supposedly a website that tracked Russian "information operations" on Twitter. Except it turned out to be pure, unadulterated garbage from a US think tank that was labelling Americans who worked night shifts as Russians. That didn't stop the media reporting it as "russian disinfo" for years, and when the truth finally came out, refusing to report on their own failed reporting and complicity. There's tons of stuff like that. If a western source is making a claim about Russian misinformation, it's pretty much a dead cert thing that they're making it up.

faeriechangling 4y ago

Other than the "your neighbours" part you literally just described America... and technically we can include the "your neighbours" part too if we're willing to look far enough backwards. Anyways I'm hardly savvy enough to know who did what and what was faked through the fog of war and all the war propaganda, but "If the Russians say down, they are disreputable invaders, so we must say up" is not a very good mode of analysis for teasing out the truth.