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But many of us, enjoy the benefits their agility gave birth to. Let's hope they learned lessons and will be improving their ways. I guess no one plans to get in

But many of us, enjoy the benefits their agility gave birth to. Let's hope they learned lessons and will be improving their ways. I guess no one plans to get in trouble at first. Consequences become highest price for innovation. Highlighting failures and calling for punishment constantly would stop everyone trying to innovate.

fnimick 3y ago
Maybe we shouldn't be encouraging "innovation" if it's at the expense of other people?
- nuclearnice1 3y ago
  Probably too simplistic. Innovation serves some and “disrupts” others. Uber might be a handy ride for you. A NYC cabbie who is in debt for his medallion might see it the opposite.
  - fnimick 3y ago
    And by the law, Uber should be illegal. That they broke the law and got popular enough to apply political pressure does not mean that they were not technically illegal the entire time. There's no contradiction here. If certain applications are illegal, you don't get to decide that regulation is inconvenient to your "innovation" and deal with the consequences later. Or rather, that is exactly what you do to make $megabux, and that's what should not be allowed.
    - nuclearnice1 3y ago
      I think your point about law breaking is good. Facebook, Uber, AirBnB. Too much law breaking in the name of innovation. I intended to make a narrower more trivial observation that innovation produces winners and losers. Innovation is just competition.
- simultsop 3y ago
  If it was not for FB privacy concerns would never become mainstream. 8B people would be still spied on. Not saying someone has to pay but they helped us see what happens when a social network gets big. Same as we wont know the dark sides of AI, but it has to be tackled.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    What exactly are you talking about here? Facebook did make many people second-guess their online presence, but it's not like our concerns over their data usage has stopped all spying. TikTok still ingests millions of videos for their... purposes. FIVE EYES ensures that the billions of first-world citizens are all spied on in law-abiding manner. NSO Group proves that spying can be privatized for adversaries too. The "dark side" of privacy concerns is that you can't merely pick one boogeyman and pretend that killing them fixes everything.
bparsons 3y ago
Consequences like a genocide in Burma or massive increases in the youth suicide rate?
- simultsop 3y ago
  I'm just speaking for innovation here, guns and medicine are most liable inventions to increase the two cases you point at. Anything can be used for good or bad.
smoldesu 3y ago
On the contrary, making examples out of the Martin Shkreli's of the world is how we put the fear of the law back into ingrates. If you're not planning to get in trouble, maybe your plans should expand to include the purview of the law. The market defaults to unfair practice unless legislation or regulation says otherwise.
leroy-is-here 3y ago
What are the benefits we are supposedly enjoying?
- simultsop 3y ago
  As a web dev here, have React, GraphQL, raising application of oAuth and many others. Probably others experienced getting in touch with their friends and families. Not claiming they should have paid that with their privacy. Given the functionality for a specific time the platform did its job well. We were caught short-sighted how all this could go wrong.
nuclearnice1 3y ago
I like your optimism. The article points out they were previously hit a few privacy issues. There was an FTC order in 2012 which the FTC claimed Facebook violated with in months. So they got a 2019 order encouraging them to follow the 2012 order. Now this order encourages them to follow the 2019 and 2012 orders. My personal view is these enforcements would be more effective if they hit the management of the corporations rather than the shareholders.
- simultsop 3y ago
  It is just that even if you got an idea nowdays you will be dumping it because of all what is going on around the world. I'm not a fan of data-selling-business. I do like how OSS is being governed, especially Vue.js, Webpack's history is also brilliant. I guess the layer that handles data sharing between platforms needs a ground framework to solve privacy problems forever.

fnimick 3y ago

Maybe we shouldn't be encouraging "innovation" if it's at the expense of other people?

nuclearnice1 3y ago
Probably too simplistic. Innovation serves some and “disrupts” others. Uber might be a handy ride for you. A NYC cabbie who is in debt for his medallion might see it the opposite.
- fnimick 3y ago
  And by the law, Uber should be illegal. That they broke the law and got popular enough to apply political pressure does not mean that they were not technically illegal the entire time. There's no contradiction here. If certain applications are illegal, you don't get to decide that regulation is inconvenient to your "innovation" and deal with the consequences later. Or rather, that is exactly what you do to make $megabux, and that's what should not be allowed.
  - nuclearnice1 3y ago
    I think your point about law breaking is good. Facebook, Uber, AirBnB. Too much law breaking in the name of innovation. I intended to make a narrower more trivial observation that innovation produces winners and losers. Innovation is just competition.
simultsop 3y ago
If it was not for FB privacy concerns would never become mainstream. 8B people would be still spied on. Not saying someone has to pay but they helped us see what happens when a social network gets big. Same as we wont know the dark sides of AI, but it has to be tackled.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  What exactly are you talking about here? Facebook did make many people second-guess their online presence, but it's not like our concerns over their data usage has stopped all spying. TikTok still ingests millions of videos for their... purposes. FIVE EYES ensures that the billions of first-world citizens are all spied on in law-abiding manner. NSO Group proves that spying can be privatized for adversaries too. The "dark side" of privacy concerns is that you can't merely pick one boogeyman and pretend that killing them fixes everything.

bparsons 3y ago

Consequences like a genocide in Burma or massive increases in the youth suicide rate?

simultsop 3y ago
I'm just speaking for innovation here, guns and medicine are most liable inventions to increase the two cases you point at. Anything can be used for good or bad.

smoldesu 3y ago

On the contrary, making examples out of the Martin Shkreli's of the world is how we put the fear of the law back into ingrates. If you're not planning to get in trouble, maybe your plans should expand to include the purview of the law. The market defaults to unfair practice unless legislation or regulation says otherwise.

leroy-is-here 3y ago

What are the benefits we are supposedly enjoying?

simultsop 3y ago
As a web dev here, have React, GraphQL, raising application of oAuth and many others. Probably others experienced getting in touch with their friends and families. Not claiming they should have paid that with their privacy. Given the functionality for a specific time the platform did its job well. We were caught short-sighted how all this could go wrong.

nuclearnice1 3y ago

I like your optimism. The article points out they were previously hit a few privacy issues. There was an FTC order in 2012 which the FTC claimed Facebook violated with in months. So they got a 2019 order encouraging them to follow the 2012 order. Now this order encourages them to follow the 2019 and 2012 orders. My personal view is these enforcements would be more effective if they hit the management of the corporations rather than the shareholders.

simultsop 3y ago
It is just that even if you got an idea nowdays you will be dumping it because of all what is going on around the world. I'm not a fan of data-selling-business. I do like how OSS is being governed, especially Vue.js, Webpack's history is also brilliant. I guess the layer that handles data sharing between platforms needs a ground framework to solve privacy problems forever.