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Westinghouse announces a new small modular nuclear reactor
- politician 3y ago“Westinghouse has an agreement to build nine AP1000s in Ukraine.” The post-war reconstruction project planning is already in the works.
- fauxpause_ 3y agoSeems kind of crazy. What are the terms of this agreement? What kind of stability is required to make the agreement executable?
- varjag 3y agoLet's see. First German nuclear power plant has been commissioned in 1961 (laid in 1958). That's 16 years after Germany was carpet bombed and was in the year of Berlin crisis.
- H8crilA 3y agoThat's not a similar situation at all. Germany was very safe to build soon after the war, but was an occupied country that had to first prove good intentions. Remember the famous quote about NATO's purpose: "to keep Russians out, Americans in and Germans down". The last part was dropped some time later.
- varjag 3y agoWell Ukraine didn't start a Word War and already operates NPPs, so.
- UberFly 3y agoWell, probably a post-war, stable Ukraine. Fingers crossed anyway. Westinghouse is hoping to have these available by 2027.
- H8crilA 3y agoNot crazy at all. Western Ukraine is already being rebuilt, it's safer there than in, IDK, Argentina where you can get robbed very easily. For example the bridges around Kyiv that were blown up during the failed assault on the capital are almost completely restored. "If you want to make money you need to go to scary places"
- fauxpause_ 3y agoKyiv is still being bombed though. With shitty poorly aimed missiles and drones, sure, but still. Is that ok for a nuclear reactor?
- fauxpause_ 3y agoEdit: Kyiv appears to have shot down a hypersonic missile yesterday. Very cool. But still, seems like a bad place for a nuclear reactor.
- Mountain_Skies 3y agoThe EU has already held a conference for companies interested in rebuilding Ukraine. The best part of war is all of the business opportunities and government contracts the aftermath creates. Of course, your side has to win for these opportunities to be realized at their maximum value. If the other side wins, you might get some contracts out of it but usually as a sub and with lower margins, so it's really important that your side comes out the victor to maximize profits.
- justrealist 3y agoThis is actually sort of brilliant, because Russia has been unwilling to cross the line of bombing nuclear reactors in their efforts to terrorize Ukraine's electrical grid. So replace every thermal plant in Ukraine with a mini-nuclear generator!
- nixass 3y ago[flagged]
- rob74 3y ago> Westinghouse is offering a smaller-scale nuclear reactor in an effort to expand access to nuclear power as demand for clean energy soars. Did they copy that verbatim from the press release? Seems kind of uncritical on CNBC's side to simply equate "nuclear" with "clean energy"...
- rockemsockem 3y agoNuclear is clean by the criteria that is applied to energy these days, which is in the context of climate change. Because that is the actual big problem we have. Sure, it generates nuclear waste that must be stored, but it doesn't uncontrollably emit greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.
- AmericanChopper 3y agoIt doesn’t exactly “generate” nuclear waste. The fuel is extracted from nature, not “generated”, and the spent fuel is mostly just the same thing with slightly less fissile isotopes in it.
- DennisP 3y agoPartly true. The bulk of the waste is just U238, which isn't really dangerous. However, instead of the U235 there are unstable fission products, left over after heavy atoms split. They provide most of the radioactivity for the first century or two. There's also plutonium, formed when U238 absorbs a neutron without fissioning, and other transuranics formed in similar ways. The transuranics make up most of the long-term radioactivity. (This is an appealing thing about fast reactors; they fission more of the transuranics so only the fission products are left, and overall you're back to the radioactivity of the original ore in a couple centuries.)
- philipkglass 3y agoFreshly discharged spent fuel is many orders of magnitude more radioactive than the source material because of the fission products generated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fission_product https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fission_product That's also why an explosive breach of an operating reactor, like at Chernobyl, is far more dangerous than an explosive accident at a uranium mining site. The danger of radioactive materials is inversely proportional to their half-lives, so acute danger from fission products lasts only a few centuries. But it's pretty important to contain those fission products until said centuries have passed.
- Maximus9000 3y ago300 MW is still pretty big, isn't it? Why don't they build nuclear reactors that can be made on a factory assembly line, shipped on the back of truck, and installed right where it's needed in a town? I assume the reactors in a nuclear sub are sort of like what I'm talking about.
- nordsieck 3y ago> Why don't they build nuclear reactors that can be made on a factory assembly line, shipped on the back of truck, and installed right where it's needed in a town? It's very difficult to get a permit.
- kwhitefoot 3y ago> Why don't they build nuclear reactors that can be made on a factory assembly line, Rolls Royce is proposing just that: https://www.rolls-royce-smr.com/why-rolls-royce-smr https://www.rolls-royce-smr.com/why-rolls-royce-smr
- rjsw 3y agoWestinghouse has made nuclear submarine reactors. The UK small modular reactor project is being run by Rolls-Royce who make the equivalent submarine reactors. Both SMR projects seem to be about 10x the power output of a submarine reactor. I'm guessing they have to use a very different level of fuel enrichment than is in subs.
- jmj42 3y agoThis is also being done. Micro-reactors are generally sub-20MWe and are intended to be portable. The biggest name is micro-reactors is probably Project PELE[1]. PELE is a DoD project to develop a trailer mounted micro-reactors for remote deployment. PELE will be tested at the Idaho National Lab[2] (DoE's primary nuclear energy research lab). Speaking of INL, they are also building the MARVEL[3] reactor. MARVEL is another test reactor of the micro-reactor type. MARVEL is being funded by DOE-NE (if I recall) and is designed to be be a 100kW. [1] https://www.cto.mil/pele_eis/ https://www.cto.mil/pele_eis/ [2] https://gain.inl.gov/GAINEPRINEI_MicroreactorProgramVirtualWorkshopPres/Day-2%20Presentations/Day-2-am.02-Nichols_PeleProgOverviewPublicMarch2020,19Aug2020.pdf https://gain.inl.gov/GAINEPRINEI_MicroreactorProgramVirtualW... [3] https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/new-marvel-project-aims-supercharge-microreactor-deployment https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/new-marvel-project-aims-s...
- cinntaile 3y agoSMRs seem to get announced quite often. I'd rather they just build one instead of announcing a new one.
- dylan604 3y agocan't get funding to do the actual build if you don't announce the plans exist
- ddeck 3y agoThis reactor seems similar in power and pricing to the GE-Hitachi BWRX-300. I don't think construction has begun anywhere yet, but the approval/planning processes are well underway for several projects. https://nuclear.gepower.com/build-a-plant/products/nuclear-power-plants-overview/bwrx-300 https://nuclear.gepower.com/build-a-plant/products/nuclear-p... https://www.ge.com/news/press-releases/ge-hitachi-signs-contract-for-the-first-north-american-small-modular-reactor https://www.ge.com/news/press-releases/ge-hitachi-signs-cont... https://www.powermag.com/ge-hitachis-bwrx-300-small-modular-reactor-gets-another-win/ https://www.powermag.com/ge-hitachis-bwrx-300-small-modular-... https://www.nucnet.org/news/capital-expenditure-on-first-bwrx-300-smr-project-estimated-at-eur1-1-billion-5-4-2022 https://www.nucnet.org/news/capital-expenditure-on-first-bwr...
- DennisP 3y agoGetting regulatory approval to build is a very long process.
- petre 3y agoThey already have the AP1000 approved, this is not an entirely new design.
- opportune 3y agoThe US military is soliciting bids and all these companies are trying to win that process. Until they win they don’t really have a customer
- briffle 3y ago
- abeppu 3y agoAbout a year ago, a study was published which looked at 3 types of SMRs and found that they produced more waste per unit energy produced, in part because smaller reactors have more neutron leakage. Of course, this new reactor was not one of the designs analyzed, but I wonder if the same concerns apply. https://news.stanford.edu/2022/05/30/small-modular-reactors-produce-high-levels-nuclear-waste/ https://news.stanford.edu/2022/05/30/small-modular-reactors-... https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2111833119 https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2111833119
- pitaj 3y agoThere's such a small amount of high-level waste that even a 30x increase isn't going to be that big of an issue, even if you don't count waste recycling.
- bradfa 3y agoRecycling or reprocessing of used nuclear fuel is not done in the USA currently. I'm curious if this will change in the near future with what appears to be renewed interest in nuclear power plants. Being able to renew what's currently considered a waste seems like a logical thing to do but obviously it's not financially worthwhile in the USA currently: https://www.nrc.gov/materials/reprocessing.html https://www.nrc.gov/materials/reprocessing.html
- perihelions 3y agoWestinghouse went bankrupt in 2017 [0] after major project mismanagement [1] that precipitated in federal felony indictments for its executives [2]. I think this is relevant background exposition that's missing from the CNBC writeup. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13987046 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13987046 ("Westinghouse Files for Bankruptcy, in Blow to Nuclear Power", 388 comments) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nukegate_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nukegate_scandal [2] https://www.justice.gov/usao-sc/pr/top-westinghouse-nuclear-executive-charged-conspiracy-fraud-16-count-federal-indictment https://www.justice.gov/usao-sc/pr/top-westinghouse-nuclear-...
- jollyllama 3y agoYep. Too little, too late.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- arawde 3y agoAll of which occurred under the management of Toshiba, no? And Westinghouse is now owned by Cameco, as a more vertically-integrated uranium & nuclear company
- PaulHoule 3y agoThose problems came at a bad time for Toshiba as the Japanese government would not be interested in supporting a national champion in nuclear immediately after the Fukushima accident.
- arcticbull 3y agoThe Japanese are back on the nuclear horse, which is great because it remains the best horse we have. [1] [1] https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-japan-climate-and-environment-02d0b9dfecc8cdc197d217b3029c5898# https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-japan-cli...
- beefman 3y agoNot small, modular, or new. But certainly a decent reactor. They clearly want something to slot in against the GE BWRX-300. But they would probably be better served by going all-in on their eVinci reactor, which is small, modular, and new https://www.westinghousenuclear.com/energy-systems/evinci-microreactor https://www.westinghousenuclear.com/energy-systems/evinci-mi...
- jeffbee 3y agoFascinating that any superficially for-profit entity would want to compete against something that has never earned one single dollar from revenue production. I find the whole industry quite unusual. It is possible that there are engineers who started at GE (or Hitachi) decades ago working on the simplified BWR, worked on it their whole careers, and retired without anyone ever building one.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y agoThere were people that worked on flight their whole lives without an airplane ever being built. That's the way it goes sometimes. Fusion energy will be a reality at some point. Tons of people worked their entire lives on it and retired and died without seeing a reactor built.
- m463 3y agoInteresting acceleration of technology. It's been possible for decades for people to build/buy and fly their own planes. Nowadays it's possible for an individual to put up a satellite or get a chip made. I wonder if in the future kids will achieve fusion.
- foota 3y agoI realize this isn't what you meant, but fusion is readily achievable, and has been done by children: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Wilson https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Wilson. It's energy positive fusion that's hard.
- lnsru 3y agoGood that Germany left this evil technology! Imagine Siemens presenting such device, unbelievable. They can watch how other players eat their lunch. Like it happened with computer software and how it’s happening with electrical vehicles. Yes, please downvote me, but coal burning whole winter will not help climate at all.
- ShroudedNight 3y agoI can understand concern about radioactive waste, but what does coal have to do with this?
- bewaretheirs 3y agoGermany's replacing nuclear and Russian natural gas with coal. https://www.npr.org/2022/09/27/1124448463/germany-coal-energy-crisis https://www.npr.org/2022/09/27/1124448463/germany-coal-energ... https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-coal-energy-electricity-renewables-4700b442 https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-coal-energy-electricity...
- runarberg 3y agoThis myth is very loud at the moment, I hear it on every HN thread about nuclear. Look at the data. Germany replaced nuclear pretty much 1:1 with solar + wind. Now there has been an increase in coal, but only because 2020 had an unusually low usage (you can guess why) and because 2022 saw an increase (again, I think you know an event at fault). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Germany#/media/File:Energiemix_Deutschland.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Germany#...
- sam_lowry_ 3y agoBecause of variability of wind and solar production, there will always be coal and gas burning. Someone somewhere has to maintain the requested load level or the network would desync. By desync I mean that its frequency will deviate from 50Hz enough to turn off the over- or underloaded sectors.
- barney54 3y agoCompanies can announce all the small modular reactors they want, but it is critical that someone actually builds one.
- stubish 3y agoIt isn't modular. It is just a small version of the existing AP1000.
- sjkoelle 3y agowestinghouse literally changed the game with their low cost lcd tvs, and now this!
- ilyt 3y agoSo why is the bigger one almost 2x as expensive per MW than the smaller one to build ?
- ShroudedNight 3y agoHow does power output scale relative to reactor size? Is the size difference for "1/3 the output" significant?
- nine_k 3y agoThe bigger the reactor, the lower is the ratio of its surface to its volume, and the fewer neutrons escape without doing useful fission work. Smaller reactors produce more radioactive junk (irradiated steel and concrete) than bigger ones, per MW produced, AFAIK.
- PaulHoule 3y agoThe ACP100 is the first small LWR to be constructed and is close to completion https://nucleus.iaea.org/sites/INPRO/df13/Presentations/011_CNNC%27s%20ACP100%20SMR-Technique%20Features%20and%20Progress%20in%20China.pdf https://nucleus.iaea.org/sites/INPRO/df13/Presentations/011_... The BWRX300 from GE is coming on strong in terms of orders, it is parallel to the AP300 as it can be seen as a cut down version of the ESBWR which unfortunately never got built. On one hand the small LWR might solve the constructibility problem of the large LWR but the whole reason the LWR got big is that the economics of an LWR are better than a small LWR on paper. Probably the best way to solve the constructibility problem of the large LWR is to solve the constructibility problem of the large LWR which the Russians seem to have done in that they are building VVER 1200s on a routine basis in Russia but also in Turkey, Egypt, China and other places. I wonder how much of the trouble the first AP1000s had was due to being the first (took forever to figure out how to make the primary coolant pump) and how much is intrinsic to the design. If the world had committed to building one a year would it eventually have become routine?
- Eumenes 3y agoCan consumers buy this? I'd like one in my backyard
- Simulacra 3y agoHow long does it take for a nuclear plant to get approved and come online?