7 ms·

You know which services I don't have problems cancelling? Ones I subscribe to via Apple's in-app payments. I get that it sucks to have Apple scrape a percentage

You know which services I don't have problems cancelling? Ones I subscribe to via Apple's in-app payments. I get that it sucks to have Apple scrape a percentage of my payments for themselves, but if you're a company I don't fully trust and/or want to have total control over my subscription without a bunch of hassle, Apple's IAPs are the way to go. Mostly this is great with the big streaming services. Want Disney+ or Paramount+ for a month to watch a show? Sign up. Immediately cancel within Apple's App Store app. Simple. And if I have a complaint, Apple has generally favored me. For example, I recently signed up for a streaming service and their app simply wouldn't work. No idea why. Pinged Apple for a refund. Got it immediately. No hassle.

nerdjon 3y ago
100% this. Going even further I always get emails when yearly subscriptions are charging in a few days and those emails even include how to cancel the subscription if I no longer wish to use it. I know people love to complain about the App Store, and there are some valid complaints. But companies being forced to use this mechanism for subscriptions is a huge benefit for consumers. Also frankly, it's a huge benefit for the developers also. There are a number of apps that I would never subscribe too if I had to use their own custom solution thanks to how many bad behaviors I have seen. But since it is part of Apple's system I don't worry about subscribing. Edit to add: I really hope that if Apple does end up being forced to open this up and allow apps to do their own subscriptions. That for many consumers like me, as a developer your choice is 70% of the money or none. I am not moving to your subscription service and will find alternatives.
- guestbest 3y ago
  Apple and Google now only take 15% from mobile app developers with annual revenue under $1 million from the App Store. It means a lot to people like me since they also host and handle payment processing for a net 30-45 contract.
- scarface74 3y ago
  A company is “forced” to use Apple for subscriptions. It’s been years since either Netflix or Spotify has even allowed in app subscriptions. I’m not going to subscribe to some unknown indy outside of the app store and guess what happens when someone changes credit cards or they expire? I’m going to update my Apple payment information. I may or may not update my other subscriptions or I may just decide it’s not worth it and let it lapse.
  - nerdjon 3y ago
    If I remember correctly they are forced in the sense that neither of those apps are allowed to give you a link to go outside of the App Store? However I vaguely remember that Netflix had an exception to this, but I don't use Spotify so can't comment on that one.
    - scarface74 3y ago
      Correct, you have to know how to go to their website and subscribe.
garbagecoder 3y ago
I was stuck in a loop where my son's iCloud account had a subscription to Parallels, but it was on my credit card. He lost his password because he's 12. Even though I'm the parent on the account, it wouldn't let me cancel his purchase. But it also wouldn't let me reset his password for 6 weeks, and only a week into that period a $100 parallels subscription was going to go through. Fortunately, American Express reversed the charge because they're cool. But Apple didn't do anything and I'm not sure how it can be that I can ever be locked out of preventing a charge to my credit card. I just wish we could find a way to give lower-level people the ability to deal with these absurd situations. It's not just Apple, you get treated like cattle everywhere.
- willcipriano 3y ago
  US based? Next time tell them he's 12 and made the account himself without your permission. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_...
  - garbagecoder 3y ago
    I could have, but I don't think I should have to massage the facts to get this fixed. I made the account. He just lost his password.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - tarunupaday 3y ago
      I call bullshit on this one. Apple allows a Parent / Guardian account to reset the password of a child account. I do not have to do anything. I can just go into my iCloud settings and just reset my child’s account right away. Also, Apple does not allow you to create a child account (below 13) without having a parent account attached to it. My guess is that you lied during account creation and created an adult account for your child and then you handed that account password and the reset mechanism to your child and he /she lost BOTH of them. In which case, Apple should still help you but I would say - you are more at fault here than Apple
mthoms 3y ago
Apple does this because the alternative would be devastatingly bad press. I mean, why do they permit 3 day trials that start billing at $9.99/week after that? For an app that creates ringtones? How many phone apps in the world are worth $520 per year? And BTW, that "3 day trial"? It's actually 2 days since you have to cancel at least 24 hours before the subscription renews. So it's really 33% less than they claim. If your child signed up for one of these subscriptions? Apple requires that subscription be canceled from the device that made it — yet provides no obvious way to determine which device that was. Is that child away at school? Too bad. Forgot their phone at a friends? Sorry about your luck. The whole thing is absurd - letting a minor child control their own subscriptions with no way for a parent (the actual credit card holder) to cancel it unless they jump through a bunch of support hoops. Apple doesn't get a pass here. They're just smarter about it all. I say that as a huge Apple fan generally.
- lencastre 3y ago
  Trials absolutely need to be super clear about the exact date of start of billing. I think iOS has gotten much better and you have even a dedicated subscriptions tab in your iOS profile in settings.
  - mthoms 3y ago
    True, but you have no insight into subscriptions that a minor has made on your credit card as part of family sharing. One might expect them to appear there but they don't.
- r00fus 3y ago
  Honestly I wonder how much of the ludicrously priced app fees are just facilitation of money laundering.
  - brewdad 3y ago
    There's a reason scammers demand to be paid in iTunes gift cards.
- 3y ago
ransom1538 3y ago
Yes. We have re-invented credit cards again.
- rfmc 3y ago
  The thing is. Credit cards may be in favor of the customer in the US, or maybe EU (I’ve never had a credit card while living in the EU so I really don’t know) but where I used to live, Brazil, the customer has always the burden of proof that something is wrong. One time my card was “cloned” and I had to go to court to remove the debt from my name. And I’ll never forget the reply that I got over and over from multiple levels of customer service: “we can’t do anything if you don’t provide the receipt of the purchase”
that_guy_iain 3y ago
Once you figure out how to cancel via the App Store it’s great. It did take me a while to even go looking for it but once I had, it was awesome.
- lencastre 3y ago
  How do you do this? And is this applicable if the subscription is made thru their website (like Netflix)?
  - alistairSH 3y ago
    Generally, Settings -> iCloud (click your name/emoji) -> Subscriptions Only applies to subscriptions made through the Apple ecosystem.
88913527 3y ago
Still wouldn't fix the problem of a creditor reporting a delinquent payment to a credit bureau, and it's hard to know if that would happen up front. I don't think Apple's solution here comes risk free, but I see your points on the usability enhancements.
- placatedmayhem 3y ago
  As I understand it, Apple's subscriptions represent the subscriptions themselves, not just the payment behind the subscription. So cancelling through the subscription interface on iOS actually handles the cancellation of the subscription, not just the payment.
hayst4ck 3y ago
Every individual company has an incentive to be a bad actor when it comes to subscriptions (or dark patterns in general). Apple is a regulatory authority acting on this tragedy of the commons. Apple has created a situation where it has a near monopoly of force when it comes to apps in the apple'sphere and is using this to the benefit of consumers. It's no wonder people prefer apple's walled garden to libertarian android. Being able to force apps to act in a specific ways makes the experience as a whole better. Given apple's market share amongst people who can afford it, I would say the free market agrees that the Apple way is better.
- gloryjulio 3y ago
  Play store is able to do the same if google want to. It's not a problem. Its company's choice to sideload
  - hayst4ck 3y ago
    That's what I'm saying, one company took the stance that they want to be a regulator, while the other took the stance that they want minimal regulation. People prefer the regulated environment. Everyone wants the benefit of regulations (people can't do the thing thing I don't like) but many don't want to pay the cost of regulations (I can't do the things those other people don't like).
    - gloryjulio 3y ago
      It's not like regulation though, it's more like extra service benefits the customers just like credit card (chargeback/insurance/extended warranty etc). There are many credit cards out there and ppl have the choices to have credit card chargeback or not. Or they could choose to use some other payment options. Google could add extra feature when ppl subscribe through play store, and keep app side loading at the same time. It's not either-or situation
    - arlcode 3y ago
      I'm usually fine with regulation (and what it costs) that benefit the consumers but I'm not fine with apple (or any private company) being the arbitrator. Apple is only beholden to it's shareholder and I have 0 influence on their behavior. Not directed at you, but I don't get how people can complain about unaccountable politicians and then turn towards even less accountable boards of directors instead.
widowlark 3y ago
If you want to do this outside of apples ecosystem, I suggest using privacy.com to generate a card with only the first month's payment available, then closing the card after the charge has been made. simple as, with no corp skimming off the top.
m463 3y ago
Remember apple implemented the in-app payments in the first place.
asdff 3y ago
What sucks about apple implementing this is that for a lot of developers who used to get by with a 99 cent app you buy once, now its 99 cents a year, sometimes $99 a year.
josephcsible 3y ago
That's a good argument for requiring App Store apps to offer Apple in-app payments for anything that costs money, but not for requiring App Store apps to only accept Apple in-app payments for anything that costs money.
- rideontime 3y ago
  Good thing Apple doesn’t require App Store apps to only accept Apple in-app payments for anything that costs money. Install the Amazon app and see for yourself.
rchaud 3y ago
You can do this with subscriptions paid via PayPal as well. I like my Macbook but I'm going to keep my financial transactions outside of the app store toll booths.

nerdjon 3y ago

100% this. Going even further I always get emails when yearly subscriptions are charging in a few days and those emails even include how to cancel the subscription if I no longer wish to use it. I know people love to complain about the App Store, and there are some valid complaints. But companies being forced to use this mechanism for subscriptions is a huge benefit for consumers. Also frankly, it's a huge benefit for the developers also. There are a number of apps that I would never subscribe too if I had to use their own custom solution thanks to how many bad behaviors I have seen. But since it is part of Apple's system I don't worry about subscribing. Edit to add: I really hope that if Apple does end up being forced to open this up and allow apps to do their own subscriptions. That for many consumers like me, as a developer your choice is 70% of the money or none. I am not moving to your subscription service and will find alternatives.

guestbest 3y ago
Apple and Google now only take 15% from mobile app developers with annual revenue under $1 million from the App Store. It means a lot to people like me since they also host and handle payment processing for a net 30-45 contract.
scarface74 3y ago
A company is “forced” to use Apple for subscriptions. It’s been years since either Netflix or Spotify has even allowed in app subscriptions. I’m not going to subscribe to some unknown indy outside of the app store and guess what happens when someone changes credit cards or they expire? I’m going to update my Apple payment information. I may or may not update my other subscriptions or I may just decide it’s not worth it and let it lapse.
- nerdjon 3y ago
  If I remember correctly they are forced in the sense that neither of those apps are allowed to give you a link to go outside of the App Store? However I vaguely remember that Netflix had an exception to this, but I don't use Spotify so can't comment on that one.
  - scarface74 3y ago
    Correct, you have to know how to go to their website and subscribe.

garbagecoder 3y ago

I was stuck in a loop where my son's iCloud account had a subscription to Parallels, but it was on my credit card. He lost his password because he's 12. Even though I'm the parent on the account, it wouldn't let me cancel his purchase. But it also wouldn't let me reset his password for 6 weeks, and only a week into that period a $100 parallels subscription was going to go through. Fortunately, American Express reversed the charge because they're cool. But Apple didn't do anything and I'm not sure how it can be that I can ever be locked out of preventing a charge to my credit card. I just wish we could find a way to give lower-level people the ability to deal with these absurd situations. It's not just Apple, you get treated like cattle everywhere.

willcipriano 3y ago
US based? Next time tell them he's 12 and made the account himself without your permission. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_...
- garbagecoder 3y ago
  I could have, but I don't think I should have to massage the facts to get this fixed. I made the account. He just lost his password.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - tarunupaday 3y ago
    I call bullshit on this one. Apple allows a Parent / Guardian account to reset the password of a child account. I do not have to do anything. I can just go into my iCloud settings and just reset my child’s account right away. Also, Apple does not allow you to create a child account (below 13) without having a parent account attached to it. My guess is that you lied during account creation and created an adult account for your child and then you handed that account password and the reset mechanism to your child and he /she lost BOTH of them. In which case, Apple should still help you but I would say - you are more at fault here than Apple

mthoms 3y ago

Apple does this because the alternative would be devastatingly bad press. I mean, why do they permit 3 day trials that start billing at $9.99/week after that? For an app that creates ringtones? How many phone apps in the world are worth $520 per year? And BTW, that "3 day trial"? It's actually 2 days since you have to cancel at least 24 hours before the subscription renews. So it's really 33% less than they claim. If your child signed up for one of these subscriptions? Apple requires that subscription be canceled from the device that made it — yet provides no obvious way to determine which device that was. Is that child away at school? Too bad. Forgot their phone at a friends? Sorry about your luck. The whole thing is absurd - letting a minor child control their own subscriptions with no way for a parent (the actual credit card holder) to cancel it unless they jump through a bunch of support hoops. Apple doesn't get a pass here. They're just smarter about it all. I say that as a huge Apple fan generally.

lencastre 3y ago
Trials absolutely need to be super clear about the exact date of start of billing. I think iOS has gotten much better and you have even a dedicated subscriptions tab in your iOS profile in settings.
- mthoms 3y ago
  True, but you have no insight into subscriptions that a minor has made on your credit card as part of family sharing. One might expect them to appear there but they don't.
r00fus 3y ago
Honestly I wonder how much of the ludicrously priced app fees are just facilitation of money laundering.
- brewdad 3y ago
  There's a reason scammers demand to be paid in iTunes gift cards.
3y ago

ransom1538 3y ago

Yes. We have re-invented credit cards again.

rfmc 3y ago
The thing is. Credit cards may be in favor of the customer in the US, or maybe EU (I’ve never had a credit card while living in the EU so I really don’t know) but where I used to live, Brazil, the customer has always the burden of proof that something is wrong. One time my card was “cloned” and I had to go to court to remove the debt from my name. And I’ll never forget the reply that I got over and over from multiple levels of customer service: “we can’t do anything if you don’t provide the receipt of the purchase”

that_guy_iain 3y ago

Once you figure out how to cancel via the App Store it’s great. It did take me a while to even go looking for it but once I had, it was awesome.

lencastre 3y ago
How do you do this? And is this applicable if the subscription is made thru their website (like Netflix)?
- alistairSH 3y ago
  Generally, Settings -> iCloud (click your name/emoji) -> Subscriptions Only applies to subscriptions made through the Apple ecosystem.

88913527 3y ago

Still wouldn't fix the problem of a creditor reporting a delinquent payment to a credit bureau, and it's hard to know if that would happen up front. I don't think Apple's solution here comes risk free, but I see your points on the usability enhancements.

placatedmayhem 3y ago
As I understand it, Apple's subscriptions represent the subscriptions themselves, not just the payment behind the subscription. So cancelling through the subscription interface on iOS actually handles the cancellation of the subscription, not just the payment.

hayst4ck 3y ago

Every individual company has an incentive to be a bad actor when it comes to subscriptions (or dark patterns in general). Apple is a regulatory authority acting on this tragedy of the commons. Apple has created a situation where it has a near monopoly of force when it comes to apps in the apple'sphere and is using this to the benefit of consumers. It's no wonder people prefer apple's walled garden to libertarian android. Being able to force apps to act in a specific ways makes the experience as a whole better. Given apple's market share amongst people who can afford it, I would say the free market agrees that the Apple way is better.

gloryjulio 3y ago
Play store is able to do the same if google want to. It's not a problem. Its company's choice to sideload
- hayst4ck 3y ago
  That's what I'm saying, one company took the stance that they want to be a regulator, while the other took the stance that they want minimal regulation. People prefer the regulated environment. Everyone wants the benefit of regulations (people can't do the thing thing I don't like) but many don't want to pay the cost of regulations (I can't do the things those other people don't like).
  - gloryjulio 3y ago
    It's not like regulation though, it's more like extra service benefits the customers just like credit card (chargeback/insurance/extended warranty etc). There are many credit cards out there and ppl have the choices to have credit card chargeback or not. Or they could choose to use some other payment options. Google could add extra feature when ppl subscribe through play store, and keep app side loading at the same time. It's not either-or situation
  - arlcode 3y ago
    I'm usually fine with regulation (and what it costs) that benefit the consumers but I'm not fine with apple (or any private company) being the arbitrator. Apple is only beholden to it's shareholder and I have 0 influence on their behavior. Not directed at you, but I don't get how people can complain about unaccountable politicians and then turn towards even less accountable boards of directors instead.

widowlark 3y ago

If you want to do this outside of apples ecosystem, I suggest using privacy.com to generate a card with only the first month's payment available, then closing the card after the charge has been made. simple as, with no corp skimming off the top.

m463 3y ago

Remember apple implemented the in-app payments in the first place.

asdff 3y ago

What sucks about apple implementing this is that for a lot of developers who used to get by with a 99 cent app you buy once, now its 99 cents a year, sometimes $99 a year.

josephcsible 3y ago

That's a good argument for requiring App Store apps to offer Apple in-app payments for anything that costs money, but not for requiring App Store apps to only accept Apple in-app payments for anything that costs money.

rideontime 3y ago
Good thing Apple doesn’t require App Store apps to only accept Apple in-app payments for anything that costs money. Install the Amazon app and see for yourself.

rchaud 3y ago

You can do this with subscriptions paid via PayPal as well. I like my Macbook but I'm going to keep my financial transactions outside of the app store toll booths.