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GDPR is nice in this regard: Consent isn't enough. The consent must be freely given (aka no stipulation saying you can't rent without accepting), informed (aka

GDPR is nice in this regard: Consent isn't enough. The consent must be freely given (aka no stipulation saying you can't rent without accepting), informed (aka you should be told all your rights and what's included in your consent, just not a general "by signing the rental agreement you're accepting us collecting your data"), and they can't even collect the data unless they have a legitimate use for it (which again someone could challenge, the landlord doesn't need to know when I come&go to do their job).

UweSchmidt 4y ago
All of that might not be enough. Renters might still find they are in a weak position to negotiate a contract details like that, if they even comprehend the full meaning and consequences. Landlords will figure out the "Legitimate use" legalese and paste it in each contract, and it is in the nature of data collection that mose abuse goes unnoticed. Casual surveillance and the landlord-renter power dynamic are things that should be established at the society-level.
- dghlsakjg 4y ago
  That’s not how “freely given consent” works. Freely given means that consent is given in a way that it does not affect any other aspect of the transaction. There is no negotiation to be made. I would imagine that a competent legal system would never allow it to be attached to a separate contract since it then becomes consideration as part of a separate transaction.
- lesuorac 4y ago
  > Landlords will figure out the "Legitimate use" legalese and paste it in each contract I have no doubt that they will. However, ultimately they will end up on this list https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ (or they were in the US and so it was irrelevant). > and it is in the nature of data collection that mose abuse goes unnoticed. Unnoticed by the average person maybe but people honestly think GDPR has had no _absolutely zero_ effect as well; doesn't make them correct.
judge2020 4y ago
> (aka no stipulation saying you can't rent without accepting) Is this specifically for landlords, or are companies forced to serve you even if you reject data collection? Also, will this actually be enforced in practice? Websites with n > 1 million users are one thing, but landlords / apartment management companies with a few hundred units are going to be tough to go after one by one.
- flangola7 4y ago
  It's all organizations. Data collection cannot be a stipulation to receive full service. It must be completely optional and opt-in.
  - jacooper 4y ago
    That's why the reject all button exists right?
  - bombcar 4y ago
    You just make a "required need" and installing a biometric access to the building might be enough to trigger that.
    - red-iron-pine 4y ago
      Plus the nice, fancy buildings will require it as a de rigueur add-on. "we only let in the best, and we offer top security, so that means retinal scans and facial recognition"
rolph 4y ago
if the rental application, looks like im installing windows, im renting elswhere.
tpxl 4y ago
> they can't even collect the data unless they have a legitimate use for it They can collect any and all data if you give free and informed consent. They do not need consent to collect data with a legitimate interest, but they do need to inform you of it.
- matsemann 4y ago
  No, actually not. GDPR also has rules related to "data minimisation", aka you shouldn't collect data you don't need.
  - tpxl 4y ago
    Got a source for that?
    - matsemann 4y ago
      GDPR article 5.1c https://gdpr-text.com/read/article-5/#related_gdpr-a-05_1c https://gdpr-text.com/read/article-5/#related_gdpr-a-05_1c
      - tpxl 4y ago
        This article and data minimisation don't mean you can't collect information, they just say you can't collect more than what you need for the specific purpose. If the specific purpose is ad targeting via a bunch of data from tracking and you have a lawful basis (ie. consent) for it, there is no problem, as far as you're really using (and need to use) that data for ad targeting.

UweSchmidt 4y ago

All of that might not be enough. Renters might still find they are in a weak position to negotiate a contract details like that, if they even comprehend the full meaning and consequences. Landlords will figure out the "Legitimate use" legalese and paste it in each contract, and it is in the nature of data collection that mose abuse goes unnoticed. Casual surveillance and the landlord-renter power dynamic are things that should be established at the society-level.

dghlsakjg 4y ago
That’s not how “freely given consent” works. Freely given means that consent is given in a way that it does not affect any other aspect of the transaction. There is no negotiation to be made. I would imagine that a competent legal system would never allow it to be attached to a separate contract since it then becomes consideration as part of a separate transaction.
lesuorac 4y ago
> Landlords will figure out the "Legitimate use" legalese and paste it in each contract I have no doubt that they will. However, ultimately they will end up on this list https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ (or they were in the US and so it was irrelevant). > and it is in the nature of data collection that mose abuse goes unnoticed. Unnoticed by the average person maybe but people honestly think GDPR has had no _absolutely zero_ effect as well; doesn't make them correct.

judge2020 4y ago

> (aka no stipulation saying you can't rent without accepting) Is this specifically for landlords, or are companies forced to serve you even if you reject data collection? Also, will this actually be enforced in practice? Websites with n > 1 million users are one thing, but landlords / apartment management companies with a few hundred units are going to be tough to go after one by one.

flangola7 4y ago
It's all organizations. Data collection cannot be a stipulation to receive full service. It must be completely optional and opt-in.
- jacooper 4y ago
  That's why the reject all button exists right?
- bombcar 4y ago
  You just make a "required need" and installing a biometric access to the building might be enough to trigger that.
  - red-iron-pine 4y ago
    Plus the nice, fancy buildings will require it as a de rigueur add-on. "we only let in the best, and we offer top security, so that means retinal scans and facial recognition"

rolph 4y ago

if the rental application, looks like im installing windows, im renting elswhere.

tpxl 4y ago

> they can't even collect the data unless they have a legitimate use for it They can collect any and all data if you give free and informed consent. They do not need consent to collect data with a legitimate interest, but they do need to inform you of it.

matsemann 4y ago
No, actually not. GDPR also has rules related to "data minimisation", aka you shouldn't collect data you don't need.
- tpxl 4y ago
  Got a source for that?
  - matsemann 4y ago
    GDPR article 5.1c https://gdpr-text.com/read/article-5/#related_gdpr-a-05_1c https://gdpr-text.com/read/article-5/#related_gdpr-a-05_1c
    - tpxl 4y ago
      This article and data minimisation don't mean you can't collect information, they just say you can't collect more than what you need for the specific purpose. If the specific purpose is ad targeting via a bunch of data from tracking and you have a lawful basis (ie. consent) for it, there is no problem, as far as you're really using (and need to use) that data for ad targeting.