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I had no idea about this either. For me this screams of a dystopian future civilization (which is apparently now) where even access to the outdoors has been lim

I had no idea about this either. For me this screams of a dystopian future civilization (which is apparently now) where even access to the outdoors has been limited due to overpopulation and is now regulated through a lottery. I mean, I get it, I understand that they need to limit the amount of people visiting certain sensitive ecosystems, but still... something about this just seems fundamentally wrong to me. Access to the great outdoors, to nature, seems like such a fundamental human right to me.

HDThoreaun 3y ago
Allowing the best spots to be completely overrun seems far more dystopian to me. To be clear, you do not need a permit to have an incredible experience at a national park.
- altec3 3y ago
  Arches National Park requires permits for entry during the busy season so you would need a permit for any sort of experience there.
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    Not if you go in the off season... Arches is also unique because it was legitimately seeing permanent damage due to overuse. There are plenty of other national parks in Utah you can go to whenever you like.
say_it_as_it_is 3y ago
Protected spaces would be over-run without permits and enforcement of said permits. These are fragile places. The dystopia would be a graffiti-laden, human excrement covered Wave with garbage laying everywhere and tourists piling on top of each other.
- nofunsir 3y ago
  I hope this is sarcasm. No it wouldn't.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
19h 3y ago
While I understand the need to protect sensitive ecosystems, restricting access to nature altogether is extremely problematic. There must be better solutions that don't infringe on what should be a basic human right. If overpopulation is truly an issue, we need to find ways to distribute people more evenly and improve infrastructure to handle more visitors in a sustainable way. A lottery system should really be an absolute last resort.

HDThoreaun 3y ago

Allowing the best spots to be completely overrun seems far more dystopian to me. To be clear, you do not need a permit to have an incredible experience at a national park.

altec3 3y ago
Arches National Park requires permits for entry during the busy season so you would need a permit for any sort of experience there.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  Not if you go in the off season... Arches is also unique because it was legitimately seeing permanent damage due to overuse. There are plenty of other national parks in Utah you can go to whenever you like.

say_it_as_it_is 3y ago

Protected spaces would be over-run without permits and enforcement of said permits. These are fragile places. The dystopia would be a graffiti-laden, human excrement covered Wave with garbage laying everywhere and tourists piling on top of each other.

nofunsir 3y ago
I hope this is sarcasm. No it wouldn't.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

19h 3y ago

While I understand the need to protect sensitive ecosystems, restricting access to nature altogether is extremely problematic. There must be better solutions that don't infringe on what should be a basic human right. If overpopulation is truly an issue, we need to find ways to distribute people more evenly and improve infrastructure to handle more visitors in a sustainable way. A lottery system should really be an absolute last resort.