5 ms·

True, but impractical. You're essentially saying every employee should have a lawyer look over their employment contract every time they get a new job? They _S

True, but impractical. You're essentially saying every employee should have a lawyer look over their employment contract every time they get a new job? They _SHOULD_, but is it really practical to expect people to?

bcrosby95 3y ago
Everyone should spend 1-2% of their yearly salary on a lawyer whenever they sign an employment contract? The world is so fucked.
- HarryHirsch 3y ago
  In the past, the employer's lawyer would negotiate with the union's lawyer, but we can't have nice things.
  - junofan 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - drewcoo 3y ago
      Downvoted because I'm tired of seeing anti-union propaganda on Hacker News. Can we stop yet? Please?
  - pclmulqdq 3y ago
    And you paid 3%/year for that union lawyer to write a contract that suits her friends (union insiders), probably at your expense. I'll pay the 1% once, thanks.
    - noobermin 3y ago
      You're literally just pulling numbers out of thin air here.
      - SideQuark 3y ago
        It's not hard to check union dues avg a few percent of income per year. Over a 5 year job this is an order of magnitude more paid out of your salary than the once paid alternative listed here.
        HarryHirsch 3y ago
        The collective weight of the union as a counterweight to employer power and overreach is also wirth something. In a dispute with your employer, HR is never on your side, but the union is.
        pclmulqdq 3y ago
        People need to stop going to HR with their problems, in general. A nice letter from whoever did your contract review works a lot better if you aren't at a union shop, and also isn't very expensive.
      - pclmulqdq 3y ago
        The 1% is from the comment I responded to (and is actually higher than my past experience - employment contracts are really easy to read). The 3% is from an average of union dues.
- pclmulqdq 3y ago
  Do you want to spend 1% upfront or 100% later? As I said in another comment, employment contract review is often $300-1000, and lawyers will do it for free if they like you.
  - cortesoft 3y ago
    That’s not the calculation. It is, do you want pay 1% now or have a 0.5% chance of paying 100% later. Most people don’t have a lawyer look over their employment contract, and most people don’t get screwed over like this when they don’t. That is not a cut and dry situation. Honestly, some kind of insurance would probably be more cost effective.
    - singleshot_ 3y ago
      Most people do not have an employment contract. If you do, a lawyer should definitely review it.
devmunchies 3y ago
Even more impractical, this would imply that the legal team at the company would need to negotiate terms with every single new hire's lawyer. Would be very expensive.
pclmulqdq 3y ago
Yes? It's pretty cheap if it's a standard contract. If you're friends with a lawyer they will do it for free. They will generally tell you where the pitfalls are, even when you can't negotiate your contract.
dsign 3y ago
There is something for that, it's called unions. Where I work, my employment contract had my name, my salary, where in the organization I was going to work and with what role, and a reference to a massive standard contract negotiated by a powerful union with all the companies in the country who would hire me for that role. That was it, two pages, it was basically a form. I did read the massive contract with the union that effectively set the terms of my employment, because, of course. But I knew it wouldn't be too bad, because, well, numbers. Tangential, there are some things that we humans can still do better than an AI, but it's not a given is going to remain like that forever. If things continue the way they go, people will still need food, shelter, healthcare and everything else, but economic organizations that provide those things may not need people. So, we should definitely be having a debate about the current social contract and how we will arrange the future to benefit us.
onetoo 3y ago
I am not from the US, but I always have a union lawyer look at my employment contracts before I sign them. It's part of my union's service. If you ask me, "expert legal team on retainer" is one of the primary reasons for being part of a union.

bcrosby95 3y ago

Everyone should spend 1-2% of their yearly salary on a lawyer whenever they sign an employment contract? The world is so fucked.

HarryHirsch 3y ago
In the past, the employer's lawyer would negotiate with the union's lawyer, but we can't have nice things.
- junofan 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - drewcoo 3y ago
    Downvoted because I'm tired of seeing anti-union propaganda on Hacker News. Can we stop yet? Please?
- pclmulqdq 3y ago
  And you paid 3%/year for that union lawyer to write a contract that suits her friends (union insiders), probably at your expense. I'll pay the 1% once, thanks.
  - noobermin 3y ago
    You're literally just pulling numbers out of thin air here.
    - SideQuark 3y ago
      It's not hard to check union dues avg a few percent of income per year. Over a 5 year job this is an order of magnitude more paid out of your salary than the once paid alternative listed here.
      - HarryHirsch 3y ago
        The collective weight of the union as a counterweight to employer power and overreach is also wirth something. In a dispute with your employer, HR is never on your side, but the union is.
        pclmulqdq 3y ago
        People need to stop going to HR with their problems, in general. A nice letter from whoever did your contract review works a lot better if you aren't at a union shop, and also isn't very expensive.
    - pclmulqdq 3y ago
      The 1% is from the comment I responded to (and is actually higher than my past experience - employment contracts are really easy to read). The 3% is from an average of union dues.
pclmulqdq 3y ago
Do you want to spend 1% upfront or 100% later? As I said in another comment, employment contract review is often $300-1000, and lawyers will do it for free if they like you.
- cortesoft 3y ago
  That’s not the calculation. It is, do you want pay 1% now or have a 0.5% chance of paying 100% later. Most people don’t have a lawyer look over their employment contract, and most people don’t get screwed over like this when they don’t. That is not a cut and dry situation. Honestly, some kind of insurance would probably be more cost effective.
  - singleshot_ 3y ago
    Most people do not have an employment contract. If you do, a lawyer should definitely review it.

devmunchies 3y ago

Even more impractical, this would imply that the legal team at the company would need to negotiate terms with every single new hire's lawyer. Would be very expensive.

pclmulqdq 3y ago

Yes? It's pretty cheap if it's a standard contract. If you're friends with a lawyer they will do it for free. They will generally tell you where the pitfalls are, even when you can't negotiate your contract.

dsign 3y ago

There is something for that, it's called unions. Where I work, my employment contract had my name, my salary, where in the organization I was going to work and with what role, and a reference to a massive standard contract negotiated by a powerful union with all the companies in the country who would hire me for that role. That was it, two pages, it was basically a form. I did read the massive contract with the union that effectively set the terms of my employment, because, of course. But I knew it wouldn't be too bad, because, well, numbers. Tangential, there are some things that we humans can still do better than an AI, but it's not a given is going to remain like that forever. If things continue the way they go, people will still need food, shelter, healthcare and everything else, but economic organizations that provide those things may not need people. So, we should definitely be having a debate about the current social contract and how we will arrange the future to benefit us.

onetoo 3y ago

I am not from the US, but I always have a union lawyer look at my employment contracts before I sign them. It's part of my union's service. If you ask me, "expert legal team on retainer" is one of the primary reasons for being part of a union.