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I have to get back to parenting, so this will my last comment on this thread. I appreciate you taking the time :) I just want to clarify two things: 1. I didn

I have to get back to parenting, so this will my last comment on this thread. I appreciate you taking the time :) I just want to clarify two things: 1. I didn't state clearly my point about the NPV of unfunded pension liabilities. AIUI, SFUSD contributes to teachers' pensions in two ways. The first is a contribution at the same time the teacher is paid their salary (which would show up on the 'total benefits' numbers we've been looking at). The second is contributions made after teachers are retired, when the contributions made beforehand aren't enough to pay for the defined benefits. When you look at teachers compensation today, it may account for the former, but probably not the latter, even though that has real value, it's paid by the employer, and it has real value for the teacher. 2. When you say 'workers at McJobs', I presume you mean those performing low-skill service jobs. AIUI[0], very few recent college graduates enter those jobs, so they're probably not a useful reference group. [0] https://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2016/01/working-as-a-barista-after-college-is-not-as-common-as-you-might-think/#.VpVBY8ArLBi https://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2016/01/workin...

mlyle 4y ago
> 2. When you say 'workers at McJobs', I presume you mean those performing low-skill service jobs. AIUI[0], very few recent college graduates enter those jobs, so they're probably not a useful reference group. You are appearing to argue that comparing teacher salaries against all jobs is better justified than comparing against those requiring bachelor's degrees. Therefore, you are the one arguing for the inclusion of McJobs. "And teachers' unions explicitly accept this. They compare teachers' salaries not to median salaries in the country, but to salaries for people with bachelors degrees, or masters degrees." At the same time, we've shown on a metric you value (that I don't for this purpose-- SAT scores) that teachers likely outperform median college graduates. If we're going to compare comp, why should they not be compared to equivalently educated people?

mlyle 4y ago

> 2. When you say 'workers at McJobs', I presume you mean those performing low-skill service jobs. AIUI[0], very few recent college graduates enter those jobs, so they're probably not a useful reference group. You are appearing to argue that comparing teacher salaries against all jobs is better justified than comparing against those requiring bachelor's degrees. Therefore, you are the one arguing for the inclusion of McJobs. "And teachers' unions explicitly accept this. They compare teachers' salaries not to median salaries in the country, but to salaries for people with bachelors degrees, or masters degrees." At the same time, we've shown on a metric you value (that I don't for this purpose-- SAT scores) that teachers likely outperform median college graduates. If we're going to compare comp, why should they not be compared to equivalently educated people?