4 ms·

> I'm just so surprised by how bad politics has become in the USA. It's like they want to have charia law... or Christian law as it were. The USA are diverse a

> I'm just so surprised by how bad politics has become in the USA. It's like they want to have charia law... or Christian law as it were. The USA are diverse and laws greatly vary from state to state. Talking about "US politics" when a single state does something is absurd. Furthermore, many European countries like France are about do the same thing with online porn, no later than this year, are you also going to accuse France of wanting to have "charia law"? That's preposterous. France couldn't be further from a very religious country. I'm not saying these kind of laws are efficient at stopping minors from watching online porn, I'm just saying that your characterization of USA as a country is wrong.

themitigating 3y ago
Roe v Wade is a good country wide indicator. Trump specifically said he would appoint judges to overturn it during one of the debates. The majority voted for him.
- ekidd 3y ago
  > The majority voted for him. Just to be precise, the popular vote was 62,984,828 to 65,853,514 in favor of Clinton, with roughly 60% turnout. The majority did not vote for Trump. But that doesn't matter in US presidental elections.
- downWidOutaFite 3y ago
  The majority did not vote for him. The majority of the "electoral college" did. 2.8 million more people voted for Hillary than Trump.
- maximinus_thrax 3y ago
  > The majority voted for him. No, we did not. The US president is not elected by majority vote and does not represent the will of the majority. Also, overturning Roe v Wade is hugely unpopular with the majority https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/07/06/majority-of-public-disapproves-of-supreme-courts-decision-to-overturn-roe-v-wade/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/07/06/majority-of-... which is already starting to show at the voting booths.
- Maarten88 3y ago
  No, the majority voted for Hillary, but Trump won.
- whythre 3y ago
  The majority in fact did not vote for him, because that’s not how electoral colleges work. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/live-update/elections-2020-updates/note-trump-lost-the-popular-vote-in-2016-but-won-the-electoral-college https://www.pbs.org/newshour/live-update/elections-2020-upda...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- 10u152 3y ago
  Wasn't the whole point of Roe V Wade that it shouldn't have ever been a federal issue and that it should be up to the states all along? Wouldn't deciding these things on a local level be more representative to the than a federal law?
  - flangola7 3y ago
    RvW made it the most local level of decision making that is possible - the individual.
    - 10u152 3y ago
      Sure, but in the context of society all laws exist to override personal decision making. Anything from speeding fines to marriage laws to corruption regulations. It's all about taking the autonomy away from the individual. RvW isn't unique in that regard.
      - flangola7 3y ago
        So what's the point about making it more local then?
gleenn 3y ago
I think that in general, as an citizen here that most people definitely think about laws as generally similar across states with the odd things like liquor laws frequently standing out. The current push towards emphasizing state's rights is a slippery slope the conservatives have been abusing quite handily like they did with the new ban on abortion. The minute they got invalidated Roe v. Wade, suddenly it immediately swung towards a federal ban on abortion. States rights are important but again, as a citizen, you know the couple things your neighbor state does differently but only recently has this felt like it split so far.
callalex 3y ago
I don’t want to put words in your mouth so please correct me, but are you asserting that laws restricting porn are not religiously motivated? Also o/t but France might not be the best example to use of healthy politics that represent the will of the people right now…
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- kelipso 3y ago
  You saying laws restricting prostitution is religiously motivated? Laws restricting gambling? Drugs? Where's the line between religious motivation and morality? Just because you don't like the law, you accuse the proponents of the law of being religiously motivated. When you like the law, it will be because of blah blah blah morality of course.
  - peterashford 3y ago
    Utah blocking porn is completely a religious issue. Just because the line between religious motivation and anything else isn't 100% black and white doesn't change that.
    - kelipso 3y ago
      It's not that it's not 100% black and white. The line basically does not exist. What is the line between someone's personal morality influenced by a society that espouses a particular religion as opposed to whatever basic hacker news atheist liberal democrat morality or whatever? One is supposedly better apparently? The Utah law is clearly influenced by their religion but to distinguish that as religiously motivated as opposed to whatever motivation US coastal elite morality barfs out, it's ridiculous.
  - analog31 3y ago
    I think, as a rule of thumb, it's reasonable to treat sexual laws as a "fingerprint" of a religious society. That doesn't mean there aren't exceptions. But when my state passed a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, the polling indicated that support for the measure was strongly divided along religious lines. So it's not so much a division between religion and morality, but just an observed pattern of religions that happens to be applicable here.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> Talking about "US politics" when a single state does something is absurd. This specific Utah porn ban is part of a broader legislative trend, e.g., https://news.yahoo.com/anti-porn-bills-8-states-231013009.html https://news.yahoo.com/anti-porn-bills-8-states-231013009.ht...

themitigating 3y ago

Roe v Wade is a good country wide indicator. Trump specifically said he would appoint judges to overturn it during one of the debates. The majority voted for him.

ekidd 3y ago
> The majority voted for him. Just to be precise, the popular vote was 62,984,828 to 65,853,514 in favor of Clinton, with roughly 60% turnout. The majority did not vote for Trump. But that doesn't matter in US presidental elections.
downWidOutaFite 3y ago
The majority did not vote for him. The majority of the "electoral college" did. 2.8 million more people voted for Hillary than Trump.
maximinus_thrax 3y ago
> The majority voted for him. No, we did not. The US president is not elected by majority vote and does not represent the will of the majority. Also, overturning Roe v Wade is hugely unpopular with the majority https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/07/06/majority-of-public-disapproves-of-supreme-courts-decision-to-overturn-roe-v-wade/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/07/06/majority-of-... which is already starting to show at the voting booths.
Maarten88 3y ago
No, the majority voted for Hillary, but Trump won.
whythre 3y ago
The majority in fact did not vote for him, because that’s not how electoral colleges work. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/live-update/elections-2020-updates/note-trump-lost-the-popular-vote-in-2016-but-won-the-electoral-college https://www.pbs.org/newshour/live-update/elections-2020-upda...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
10u152 3y ago
Wasn't the whole point of Roe V Wade that it shouldn't have ever been a federal issue and that it should be up to the states all along? Wouldn't deciding these things on a local level be more representative to the than a federal law?
- flangola7 3y ago
  RvW made it the most local level of decision making that is possible - the individual.
  - 10u152 3y ago
    Sure, but in the context of society all laws exist to override personal decision making. Anything from speeding fines to marriage laws to corruption regulations. It's all about taking the autonomy away from the individual. RvW isn't unique in that regard.
    - flangola7 3y ago
      So what's the point about making it more local then?

gleenn 3y ago

I think that in general, as an citizen here that most people definitely think about laws as generally similar across states with the odd things like liquor laws frequently standing out. The current push towards emphasizing state's rights is a slippery slope the conservatives have been abusing quite handily like they did with the new ban on abortion. The minute they got invalidated Roe v. Wade, suddenly it immediately swung towards a federal ban on abortion. States rights are important but again, as a citizen, you know the couple things your neighbor state does differently but only recently has this felt like it split so far.

callalex 3y ago

I don’t want to put words in your mouth so please correct me, but are you asserting that laws restricting porn are not religiously motivated? Also o/t but France might not be the best example to use of healthy politics that represent the will of the people right now…

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kelipso 3y ago
You saying laws restricting prostitution is religiously motivated? Laws restricting gambling? Drugs? Where's the line between religious motivation and morality? Just because you don't like the law, you accuse the proponents of the law of being religiously motivated. When you like the law, it will be because of blah blah blah morality of course.
- peterashford 3y ago
  Utah blocking porn is completely a religious issue. Just because the line between religious motivation and anything else isn't 100% black and white doesn't change that.
  - kelipso 3y ago
    It's not that it's not 100% black and white. The line basically does not exist. What is the line between someone's personal morality influenced by a society that espouses a particular religion as opposed to whatever basic hacker news atheist liberal democrat morality or whatever? One is supposedly better apparently? The Utah law is clearly influenced by their religion but to distinguish that as religiously motivated as opposed to whatever motivation US coastal elite morality barfs out, it's ridiculous.
- analog31 3y ago
  I think, as a rule of thumb, it's reasonable to treat sexual laws as a "fingerprint" of a religious society. That doesn't mean there aren't exceptions. But when my state passed a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, the polling indicated that support for the measure was strongly divided along religious lines. So it's not so much a division between religion and morality, but just an observed pattern of religions that happens to be applicable here.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> Talking about "US politics" when a single state does something is absurd. This specific Utah porn ban is part of a broader legislative trend, e.g., https://news.yahoo.com/anti-porn-bills-8-states-231013009.html https://news.yahoo.com/anti-porn-bills-8-states-231013009.ht...