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FTC Proposes Blanket Prohibition Preventing Facebook from Monetizing Youth Data

36 points by envy2 3y ago

zenmaster10665 3y ago
This is just more unworkable bullshit from the FTC...really looks like a vendetta at this point...
- frickinLasers 3y ago
  The unworkable bit, which I really hope we're moving toward over time, is banning all monetization of personal data for advertising purposes.
  - zenmaster10665 3y ago
    Right, so how do small business reach consumers? Enjoy all the viagra ads!
    - frickinLasers 3y ago
      I'm not going to see their ad anyway, and if I did and knew it was targeted, I'd be more likely to find somewhere else to shop. What did we have before targeting existed? - I thought unobtrusive keyword-based ads in Google searches were okay, when they didn't fill the results page. - I think context-sensitive ads are fantastic. People reading a boat-building site see ads for boat-building or other related products/services. I would click on these ads. - Word of mouth, vetted reviews, brand loyalty...all valid, rights-preserving approaches. Since the lore is that targeting gets higher click-through rates, maybe small businesses could pay a little less for the less skeezy alternatives. Targeted advertising is forever linked in my mind to Zuckerberg's "dumb fucks" email. Facebook/Meta is the biggest offender in this space, and I'm happy to watch it die in a fire.
      - xvector 3y ago
        Literally none of your solutions work for small businesses, as they cannot win the auctions for limited adspace in a world where targeting doesn't exist, and word of mouth only really works for an extremely tiny fraction of small businesses. Your solution would decimate the millions of small businesses that rely on targeted advertising to get consumers.
    - quantified 3y ago
      Small businesses don't win many advertising auctions anyway. Big brands win, or cheap knockoff brands on Amazon, or Amazon itself (not a small business).
      - charcircuit 3y ago
        >Small businesses don't win many advertising auctions anyway. Which is why for the ones they do win it is so important for the chance of that user converting to be as high as it can be.
frickinLasers 3y ago
Facebook's response [0]: - "a political stunt" - "...no opportunity to discuss this new, totally unprecedented theory." - "Let’s be clear about what the FTC is trying to do: usurp the authority of Congress to set industry-wide standards and instead single out one American company while allowing Chinese companies, like TikTok, to operate without constraint on American soil," That last bit might be valid in part, but I'm just here for the schadenfreude. [0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/ftc-says-facebook-violated-privacy-order-proposes-ban-on-monetizing-youth-data/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/ftc-says-faceboo...
bippihippi1 3y ago
Amazon health just has people agree they can violate hipaa, what's preventing anyone from updating their eula and ignoring this?
- quantified 3y ago
  Minors can't legally enter contracts such as EULAs.
- filoleg 3y ago
  > Amazon health just has people agree they can violate hipaa I apologize for feeling the need to even ask this, but are you sure you know what HIPAA actually is? HIPAA prohibits medical providers from disclosing patients' medical records/info to third parties without their consent. Medical providers can still share that data with third parties with patients' consent. And patients are also absolutely free to share their own health data with absolutely anyone, no consent from anyone else is required.
  - bippihippi1 3y ago
    it allows them to sell your medical data. I guess once you tell someone about your health data then it's no longer health data protected by hipaa?
    - filoleg 3y ago
      > guess once you tell someone about your health data then it's no longer health data protected by hipaa? It is a bit more complex and involved than this, so a simple answer would be "it depends". However, no matter who it is that is disclosing your health data, they are in the clear to do so as long as you consented to that disclosure and the contract/agreement itself was legally in the clear. For more caveats/rules around this, I suggest checking the official government page talking about it[0]. I found it to be pretty well-written for a layman person like me to understand. 0. https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-individuals/guidance-materials-for-consumers/index.html https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-individuals/guidance-materials...
voytec 3y ago
Why only youth?
blsapologist42 3y ago
I do think it's odd that the FTC is going so heavy on one company. Shouldn't we have laws that apply broadly to the industry? It's not as if Meta is the only social media company anymore (is it even the most popular?) > Pause on the launch of new products, services: The company would be prohibited from releasing new or modified products, services, or features without written confirmation from the assessor that its privacy program is in full compliance with the order’s requirements and presents no material gaps or weaknesses. Do we really want the government to have to approve every new product a privacy company releases? That seems quite extreme and typically only applies to very specific industries with broad safety concerns (like medical care).

36 points by envy2 3y ago

zenmaster10665 3y ago

This is just more unworkable bullshit from the FTC...really looks like a vendetta at this point...

frickinLasers 3y ago
The unworkable bit, which I really hope we're moving toward over time, is banning all monetization of personal data for advertising purposes.
- zenmaster10665 3y ago
  Right, so how do small business reach consumers? Enjoy all the viagra ads!
  - frickinLasers 3y ago
    I'm not going to see their ad anyway, and if I did and knew it was targeted, I'd be more likely to find somewhere else to shop. What did we have before targeting existed? - I thought unobtrusive keyword-based ads in Google searches were okay, when they didn't fill the results page. - I think context-sensitive ads are fantastic. People reading a boat-building site see ads for boat-building or other related products/services. I would click on these ads. - Word of mouth, vetted reviews, brand loyalty...all valid, rights-preserving approaches. Since the lore is that targeting gets higher click-through rates, maybe small businesses could pay a little less for the less skeezy alternatives. Targeted advertising is forever linked in my mind to Zuckerberg's "dumb fucks" email. Facebook/Meta is the biggest offender in this space, and I'm happy to watch it die in a fire.
    - xvector 3y ago
      Literally none of your solutions work for small businesses, as they cannot win the auctions for limited adspace in a world where targeting doesn't exist, and word of mouth only really works for an extremely tiny fraction of small businesses. Your solution would decimate the millions of small businesses that rely on targeted advertising to get consumers.
  - quantified 3y ago
    Small businesses don't win many advertising auctions anyway. Big brands win, or cheap knockoff brands on Amazon, or Amazon itself (not a small business).
    - charcircuit 3y ago
      >Small businesses don't win many advertising auctions anyway. Which is why for the ones they do win it is so important for the chance of that user converting to be as high as it can be.

frickinLasers 3y ago

Facebook's response [0]: - "a political stunt" - "...no opportunity to discuss this new, totally unprecedented theory." - "Let’s be clear about what the FTC is trying to do: usurp the authority of Congress to set industry-wide standards and instead single out one American company while allowing Chinese companies, like TikTok, to operate without constraint on American soil," That last bit might be valid in part, but I'm just here for the schadenfreude. [0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/ftc-says-facebook-violated-privacy-order-proposes-ban-on-monetizing-youth-data/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/ftc-says-faceboo...

bippihippi1 3y ago

Amazon health just has people agree they can violate hipaa, what's preventing anyone from updating their eula and ignoring this?

quantified 3y ago
Minors can't legally enter contracts such as EULAs.
filoleg 3y ago
> Amazon health just has people agree they can violate hipaa I apologize for feeling the need to even ask this, but are you sure you know what HIPAA actually is? HIPAA prohibits medical providers from disclosing patients' medical records/info to third parties without their consent. Medical providers can still share that data with third parties with patients' consent. And patients are also absolutely free to share their own health data with absolutely anyone, no consent from anyone else is required.
- bippihippi1 3y ago
  it allows them to sell your medical data. I guess once you tell someone about your health data then it's no longer health data protected by hipaa?
  - filoleg 3y ago
    > guess once you tell someone about your health data then it's no longer health data protected by hipaa? It is a bit more complex and involved than this, so a simple answer would be "it depends". However, no matter who it is that is disclosing your health data, they are in the clear to do so as long as you consented to that disclosure and the contract/agreement itself was legally in the clear. For more caveats/rules around this, I suggest checking the official government page talking about it[0]. I found it to be pretty well-written for a layman person like me to understand. 0. https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-individuals/guidance-materials-for-consumers/index.html https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-individuals/guidance-materials...

voytec 3y ago

Why only youth?

blsapologist42 3y ago

I do think it's odd that the FTC is going so heavy on one company. Shouldn't we have laws that apply broadly to the industry? It's not as if Meta is the only social media company anymore (is it even the most popular?) > Pause on the launch of new products, services: The company would be prohibited from releasing new or modified products, services, or features without written confirmation from the assessor that its privacy program is in full compliance with the order’s requirements and presents no material gaps or weaknesses. Do we really want the government to have to approve every new product a privacy company releases? That seems quite extreme and typically only applies to very specific industries with broad safety concerns (like medical care).