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> how on earth does consciousness arise from material "meat" Let me try. It is a way to perceive with goals in mind. Nothing special, just perception, future r
by visarga 4y ago
> how on earth does consciousness arise from material "meat"
Let me try. It is a way to perceive with goals in mind. Nothing special, just perception, future reward prediction conditioned on current state, and learning from outcomes.
The whole specialness of consciousness is that it carries inside not just our external world, but also our plans and goals. So in this place where they meet, and where there are consequences to be had for each decision, this is where consciousness is. [*]
I support the 5E theory of cognition - embodied, embedded, extended, enacted, and enactive cognition. I think you need to look not at the brain but the whole game to find consciousness.
[*] Consequences for an AI agent could be changing its neural network, so it updates its behaviour, and changes in the external situation - the agent might not be able to backtrack past a decision they take.
- mkehrt 4y ago[flagged]
- visarga 4y agoWhat is consciousness, if not perceiving-feeling-acting-learning loop?
- mkehrt 4y agoI would define consciousness as having internal experience, i.e., qualia.
- tasty_freeze 4y agoYour response it needlessly insulting. The person you are talking about has taken a complex topic and expressed their model for consciousness in a short, clinical way. Then you insult them as not being a real human for describing their model clinically. A more charitable response might be: I don't understand how your model addresses the origin of consciousness. Could you elaborate on that? Personally, I understood their point and didn't question whether a human wrote it.
- mkehrt 4y agoAh, you are probably right. I'm just deeply baffled by their answer.
- jamiek88 4y agoYou and I experience the world very differently. Do you have an internal monologue?
- goatlover 4y agoSome people don't. Some people also think visually and translate their visual images to words when communicating. There are even some people who don't feel pain, which can be a problem.
- jamiek88 4y agoThat’s why I asked! I wanted to know if that lack affects one’s interpretation of their own consciousness hence our different thoughts on the matter.
- goatlover 4y agoI recall reading where some philosophers were skeptical that people actually had mental images when visualizing. But an experiment was performed asking people to rotate mental images in their head versus calculate the rotation, and there was a measurable difference between the two activities. The person writing the article suspected that the skeptical philosophers were bad at visualization and assumed everyone else was unable to rotate images in their mind. Which is a logical fallacy.