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Genuinely curious — what language do you think has good/better package management? Every time I start a Python project, for example, there's a bunch of time and

Genuinely curious — what language do you think has good/better package management? Every time I start a Python project, for example, there's a bunch of time and frustration spent getting pip and virtual envs working.

moron4hire 4y ago
I haven't had any package management troubles with .NET in over a decade.
- HideousKojima 4y ago
  Only times I've run into dependency issues with .NET are when a library expects certain native DLLs to already be present on the system, but that's pretty rare (and fairly easy to solve).
- zovin 4y ago
  Especially since moving to SDK-style projects, I haven't even thought about assembly bindings in a long time. I've come to really like nuget.
frizkie 4y ago
You didn't ask me this question, but I work in Ruby, and off the top of my head, have no complaints about Bundler. Switching Ruby versions between projects is not something that is handled natively in any way (unsurprisingly?) and I know that I've struggled a lot with `rvm`, but since switching to *env (rbenv, pyenv, nodenv) I can safely say I do not have any struggles on that front either.
- salzig 4y ago
  You should give asdf-vm a chance. Like rbenv, but for almost everything. Switch is easy, using legacyfile support almost unnoticeable.
  - technion 4y ago
    I feel ruby's whole problem in this space is that everyone recommends a different tool. I've used several. None are terrible. But walking into an environment and getting told everyone uses a different tool is
BiteCode_dev 4y ago
Rust is the golden standard. python and js are on part with each other, they just have different problems: - tooling and dependencies are hell in js - bootstrapping is half the battle in python (see https://bitecode.substack.com/p/relieving-your-python-packaging-pain https://bitecode.substack.com/p/relieving-your-python-packag...)
- k__ 4y ago
  Python devs always told me npm was better than pip
  - xeromal 4y ago
    As a python and node dev, I think NPM wins out just because I don't have to "activate" an environment when I want to use it. The environment is always right there where my code is.
  - BiteCode_dev 4y ago
    Pip and npm are pretty much equivalent, but node_modules makes for an easier setup, while venv makes for easier tooling configuration.
hombre_fatal 4y ago
They are talking about client development so none of the answers are going to compare. You aren’t grabbing ESMs from CDNs for a Node server app. And even if you are, that’s just not a situation that’s happening outside of an ecosystem that straddles client development.
tnorthcutt 4y ago
Of the three languages that I deal with semi-frequently (JS, Python, and PHP), I have by far the least trouble with PHP's package management.
- noir_lord 4y ago
  composer is remarkable in that it causes very few problems in practice. It’s an excellent package manager in a mainstream language that just does its job. It helps that the PHP community mostly just saw PSR4 and went, yeah, that’ll do. Meanwhile over in JS land issues are still caused because different modules use different module formats and it’s all just…fragile somehow. Ironic give the reputation of PHP that it nailed its package manager.
  - jamesfinlayson 4y ago
    I know - PHP cops a lot of flack but composer just works and has never given me any grief.
dingledork69 4y ago
Java/Maven
chao- 4y ago
In my mind, anyone setting out to create a package manager, or a new language that will need one, needs to at least match the functionality of Gems/Bundler or Hex/Mix. They've been around long enough that it feels like table stakes at this point. Mix does more than just dependencies, however I am referring the table stakes as being the more narrow scope of dependency management.
sodapopcan 4y ago
Elixir’s tooling, Mix, is really great.
rad_gruchalski 4y ago
Fortran: fpm is really nice. Go: modules.

moron4hire 4y ago

I haven't had any package management troubles with .NET in over a decade.

HideousKojima 4y ago
Only times I've run into dependency issues with .NET are when a library expects certain native DLLs to already be present on the system, but that's pretty rare (and fairly easy to solve).
zovin 4y ago
Especially since moving to SDK-style projects, I haven't even thought about assembly bindings in a long time. I've come to really like nuget.

frizkie 4y ago

You didn't ask me this question, but I work in Ruby, and off the top of my head, have no complaints about Bundler. Switching Ruby versions between projects is not something that is handled natively in any way (unsurprisingly?) and I know that I've struggled a lot with `rvm`, but since switching to *env (rbenv, pyenv, nodenv) I can safely say I do not have any struggles on that front either.

salzig 4y ago
You should give asdf-vm a chance. Like rbenv, but for almost everything. Switch is easy, using legacyfile support almost unnoticeable.
- technion 4y ago
  I feel ruby's whole problem in this space is that everyone recommends a different tool. I've used several. None are terrible. But walking into an environment and getting told everyone uses a different tool is

BiteCode_dev 4y ago

Rust is the golden standard. python and js are on part with each other, they just have different problems: - tooling and dependencies are hell in js - bootstrapping is half the battle in python (see https://bitecode.substack.com/p/relieving-your-python-packaging-pain https://bitecode.substack.com/p/relieving-your-python-packag...)

k__ 4y ago
Python devs always told me npm was better than pip
- xeromal 4y ago
  As a python and node dev, I think NPM wins out just because I don't have to "activate" an environment when I want to use it. The environment is always right there where my code is.
- BiteCode_dev 4y ago
  Pip and npm are pretty much equivalent, but node_modules makes for an easier setup, while venv makes for easier tooling configuration.

hombre_fatal 4y ago

They are talking about client development so none of the answers are going to compare. You aren’t grabbing ESMs from CDNs for a Node server app. And even if you are, that’s just not a situation that’s happening outside of an ecosystem that straddles client development.

tnorthcutt 4y ago

Of the three languages that I deal with semi-frequently (JS, Python, and PHP), I have by far the least trouble with PHP's package management.

noir_lord 4y ago
composer is remarkable in that it causes very few problems in practice. It’s an excellent package manager in a mainstream language that just does its job. It helps that the PHP community mostly just saw PSR4 and went, yeah, that’ll do. Meanwhile over in JS land issues are still caused because different modules use different module formats and it’s all just…fragile somehow. Ironic give the reputation of PHP that it nailed its package manager.
- jamesfinlayson 4y ago
  I know - PHP cops a lot of flack but composer just works and has never given me any grief.

dingledork69 4y ago

Java/Maven

chao- 4y ago

In my mind, anyone setting out to create a package manager, or a new language that will need one, needs to at least match the functionality of Gems/Bundler or Hex/Mix. They've been around long enough that it feels like table stakes at this point. Mix does more than just dependencies, however I am referring the table stakes as being the more narrow scope of dependency management.

sodapopcan 4y ago

Elixir’s tooling, Mix, is really great.

rad_gruchalski 4y ago

Fortran: fpm is really nice. Go: modules.