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I wish their mainboard became an actual motherboard spec (something like LAPTOP-ATX), it seems like it's proprietary. Would open the door for more folks to bui

I wish their mainboard became an actual motherboard spec (something like LAPTOP-ATX), it seems like it's proprietary. Would open the door for more folks to build swappable laptop boards.

prettyStandard 4y ago
They seem to be doing everything they can to make it not proprietary. I'm not sure if there's more that they can do.
- zamnos 4y ago
  a couple possibilities off the top of my head, starting with actually working with other vendors, so it's not only them making them. Work on the whole supply chain - including recycling - for these things. do a "buy one give one" type deal to seed the hardware more widely. write a bunch of software for the device so there's even more of a draw to get one of these. develop an ARM board. All of these projects are non-trivial but until they have the sales to support the kind of staying that would require, they'll need more capital first. Know any VCs? just dumping the specs on the website isn't enough. they need to to actually talk to other vendors and get them involved with the project, and figure out the right financial incentives for them, which won't be easy.
  - dcow 4y ago
    Lol wut? You want VCs to fund the creation/incubation of a laptop mainboard spec using equity from Framework just to spoon-feed other vendors into competition? I mean it kinda seems like the onus is on new vendors to work off the published specs and and with Framework as interest grows to codify a standard so they can be relevant. I’m sure Framework would love that. It’s really dumb to see people advocating for Framework to waste resources solving a problem that doesn't exist.
    - candiddevmike 4y ago
      For me, all of their openness kind of falls flat when you realize it's just another locked-in laptop ecosystem... It's great that they publish their specs, but that doesn't mean anything to me if they're the only ones making them.
      - dcow 4y ago
        But they’re not locking you in, while other vendors clearly and deliberately are. Definitely the lesser evil. So even a utilitarian like you would choose Framework, provided all else is equal. They even promote 3rd party enclosures for the mainboard in this post so you can’t even say they’re not fostering the ecosystem when they can. It’s not incumbent upon Framework to actually provide competition. That’s a competitor's job. The nuance is that being open is the ”right thing to do”. It’s not fair to criticize Framework for doing the right thing because no competitors have stepped up yet. Or because nobody else has come around yet. It’s fine to comment on the situation and say “effectively I can still only buy a Framework mainboard”. Thats true, of course. But that's in no way Framework’s fault.
        candiddevmike 4y ago
        I don't think you're getting my point. I can't do anything with the specs Framework publishes, I can't fab my own parts. So for me, either as an individual or a person buying equipment for my business, when comparing Framework with Dell or Lenovo, it's the same outcome: they're the sole supplier of parts for their devices. Thus, I don't really get a benefit with using Framework vs one of the other providers, especially when I could buy a new laptop (on sale or whatever) for the cost of a mainboard upgrade. I won't buy Framework devices.
        dcow 4y ago
        It you who's not getting my point. I explicitly said I understand that effectively there's no difference for you at the moment with framework vs other vendors. My point was that having an open system still puts you in a better situation than a closed system (and that it's not fair to criticize Framework for 3rd party parts vendors not existing since that's how this thread started), for numerous reasons but especially because you're not wholly dependent on the future benevolence of your chosen vendor to prioritize, manufacture, and provide at reasonable prices replacement parts and upgrades. Since they have a monopoly on that part, they can charge whatever they want so there's literally no incentive whatsoever pulling down the price. I said this holds if all else is equal. You're now bringing in cost. This is a factor too, for sure, and responds to my all else is equal caveat. And if your cost analysis determines that Framework is not worth the price, then there isn't much I can do about that in a discussion here since I can't speak to their quality/reliability/experience (and why they might be worth the cost or how you might otherwise benefit for the additional price when compared to e.g. Dell) since I'm not an owner.
- uoaei 4y ago
  We could call it a "new standard" that's so new the format hasn't been recognized by the wider industry. Although there was that Cooler Master case for mainboard only that can turn it into a headless server, so it's beginning to trickle into mainstream awareness.

I wish their mainboard became an actual motherboard spec (something like LAPTOP-ATX), it seems like it's proprietary. Would open the door for more folks to build swappable laptop boards.

prettyStandard 4y ago

They seem to be doing everything they can to make it not proprietary. I'm not sure if there's more that they can do.

zamnos 4y ago
a couple possibilities off the top of my head, starting with actually working with other vendors, so it's not only them making them. Work on the whole supply chain - including recycling - for these things. do a "buy one give one" type deal to seed the hardware more widely. write a bunch of software for the device so there's even more of a draw to get one of these. develop an ARM board. All of these projects are non-trivial but until they have the sales to support the kind of staying that would require, they'll need more capital first. Know any VCs? just dumping the specs on the website isn't enough. they need to to actually talk to other vendors and get them involved with the project, and figure out the right financial incentives for them, which won't be easy.
- dcow 4y ago
  Lol wut? You want VCs to fund the creation/incubation of a laptop mainboard spec using equity from Framework just to spoon-feed other vendors into competition? I mean it kinda seems like the onus is on new vendors to work off the published specs and and with Framework as interest grows to codify a standard so they can be relevant. I’m sure Framework would love that. It’s really dumb to see people advocating for Framework to waste resources solving a problem that doesn't exist.
  - candiddevmike 4y ago
    For me, all of their openness kind of falls flat when you realize it's just another locked-in laptop ecosystem... It's great that they publish their specs, but that doesn't mean anything to me if they're the only ones making them.
    - dcow 4y ago
      But they’re not locking you in, while other vendors clearly and deliberately are. Definitely the lesser evil. So even a utilitarian like you would choose Framework, provided all else is equal. They even promote 3rd party enclosures for the mainboard in this post so you can’t even say they’re not fostering the ecosystem when they can. It’s not incumbent upon Framework to actually provide competition. That’s a competitor's job. The nuance is that being open is the ”right thing to do”. It’s not fair to criticize Framework for doing the right thing because no competitors have stepped up yet. Or because nobody else has come around yet. It’s fine to comment on the situation and say “effectively I can still only buy a Framework mainboard”. Thats true, of course. But that's in no way Framework’s fault.
      - candiddevmike 4y ago
        I don't think you're getting my point. I can't do anything with the specs Framework publishes, I can't fab my own parts. So for me, either as an individual or a person buying equipment for my business, when comparing Framework with Dell or Lenovo, it's the same outcome: they're the sole supplier of parts for their devices. Thus, I don't really get a benefit with using Framework vs one of the other providers, especially when I could buy a new laptop (on sale or whatever) for the cost of a mainboard upgrade. I won't buy Framework devices.
        dcow 4y ago
        It you who's not getting my point. I explicitly said I understand that effectively there's no difference for you at the moment with framework vs other vendors. My point was that having an open system still puts you in a better situation than a closed system (and that it's not fair to criticize Framework for 3rd party parts vendors not existing since that's how this thread started), for numerous reasons but especially because you're not wholly dependent on the future benevolence of your chosen vendor to prioritize, manufacture, and provide at reasonable prices replacement parts and upgrades. Since they have a monopoly on that part, they can charge whatever they want so there's literally no incentive whatsoever pulling down the price. I said this holds if all else is equal. You're now bringing in cost. This is a factor too, for sure, and responds to my all else is equal caveat. And if your cost analysis determines that Framework is not worth the price, then there isn't much I can do about that in a discussion here since I can't speak to their quality/reliability/experience (and why they might be worth the cost or how you might otherwise benefit for the additional price when compared to e.g. Dell) since I'm not an owner.
uoaei 4y ago
We could call it a "new standard" that's so new the format hasn't been recognized by the wider industry. Although there was that Cooler Master case for mainboard only that can turn it into a headless server, so it's beginning to trickle into mainstream awareness.