4 ms·

So anyone still thinking MS is now all good and it's not an issue that it own github + vscode + a endless list of other things relevant for especially smaller d

So anyone still thinking MS is now all good and it's not an issue that it own github + vscode + a endless list of other things relevant for especially smaller development companies? Microsoft will do whats best for them. Temporary this includes embrace open source to some degree and being reasonable nice to Linux. For example WSL can help with trying out Linux and help cross platform devs on Windows to develop for Linux which can help with a to Linux migration. But it removes the main reasons why a lot of students, scientists and server devs had to use it. So for now it's net-good for them, which can be good for Linux, too. But what will happen if it again is more profitable for MS to not act nice? How long will it then take to WSL to have features in a way which make it likely software only works on WSL Linux and maybe Azur servers but won't be available on normal distros. How long until GitHub will have some small but very usefull features which happen to only be available in some Windows GitHub client pushing companies to require Windows first desktop systems? How long until they will influence legislation around computer security in a way which have effects like being practical impossible for normal desktop Linux clients or require some proprietary Linux core component due to a combination of legislation and patents, which distributions for Azur or Google cloud surely will have for free, but the competition? Honestly I hope so long that you could say never. But I believe open source and free desktops are as much threatened by MS today as many years ago when people aware about it often treated MS as a evil company for good reasons. But today it's in a way more roundabout, very subtle very hard to pin down way. This gives them the chance to succeed where they failed before, but us the chance to both profit from them and while preventing them from succeeding. Optimally leading to some form of stalemate where both are profiting from each other.

ixwt 4y ago
Embrace. Extend. Extinguish.
kps 4y ago
I suspect VSCode is a baited hook. Get enough developers dependent on it, then degrade it on Linux, and offer WSL as close enough to have people switch their OS rather than their editor. With developers on Windows, cloud follows.
- weberer 4y ago
  They've already been doing this with Teams. Their native Linux client has less features, like screen blurring, or being able to view more than 4 users at a time. Thankfully you can get around this by using the web version, but who knows how long it will be until they do some user-agent shenanigans to mess with you again.
  - HeavyStorm 4y ago
    That's not a strategy to damage Linux users at all, it's just that main focus for apps is windows, then probably apple, then Linux. Also, MS devs are much more versed in windows.
  - dathinab 4y ago
    Their native linux client is an outdated version of their web client using a outdated version of electron (I think it was electron), i.e. it's not native do not use it, use the browser.
- anaganisk 4y ago
  WSL is a literal VM now, that runs based on Hyper-V afaik, if Vscode degrades on Linux, I'm just not sure how it won't affect WSL too. Whatever happened to using vim,emacs, intelliJ, or tons of other Vscode forks. Vscode is not the baited hook, it's the exclusive integrations (extensions) like remote containers, remote containers etc that are nice to have features not workflow breaking stuff.
  - eptcyka 4y ago
    VSCode runs well on host and just uses SSH to have a remote Dev env in the Linux VM. At this point, a MS advocate might argue that we don't even need vscode to run on Linux at all. I think their next push won't be against Foss people, but to get people on the cloud so they get a recurring revenue stream and their customers are hooked deeper still.
    - anaganisk 4y ago
anaganisk 4y ago
Ummm, Github runs on Git. So any feature supported by git will work work with any client other than the official windows client. Vscode is a text editor/IDE, it has bajillion alternatives, again unless MS doesn't allow code not written in Vscode to GitHub, which is a suicide anyway. There is Bitbucket or Gitlab to fork to. WSL, is awesome, because Linux is not game friendly, yeah yeah proton blah blah. I own a steam deck I know how it works and for a casual user Linux gaming just isn't there unless you want to tinker a lot. Then there are products like Photoshop replacements for which Linux is sub par, no GIMP is not alternative, it's entirely different. But nothing is stopping other users to switch to Linux unless edge/windows 11 blackholes insert_your_favorite_linux.com. WSL just clicked for a reason. MS as a company will fight for market share, no company after a certain size is moral, it's "free market" as US defines it. Change laws not companies. Regulate not ask nice. Feels like EU knows this and at least tries to twist the arms of companies where as in US it's seen as infringement of freedom. Ms gobbling up dev community is fear mongering towards the wrong entity.
makeitdouble 4y ago
I think this is down to the usual issue: what are you willing to give up in exchange for linux ? A decade ago you'd need to give up high DPI screens and capable laptops for linux. Today it's either the mac ecosystem with the iOS dev tools, or the Windows compatible newer form factors and/or the games/VR ecosystem. Apple will do what helps Apple, and Microsoft will do what serves Microsoft. Does a pure linux experience effectively serve you in your day to day work ? If yes, lucky you, it's still "no" fo many of us.

ixwt 4y ago

Embrace. Extend. Extinguish.

kps 4y ago

I suspect VSCode is a baited hook. Get enough developers dependent on it, then degrade it on Linux, and offer WSL as close enough to have people switch their OS rather than their editor. With developers on Windows, cloud follows.

weberer 4y ago
They've already been doing this with Teams. Their native Linux client has less features, like screen blurring, or being able to view more than 4 users at a time. Thankfully you can get around this by using the web version, but who knows how long it will be until they do some user-agent shenanigans to mess with you again.
- HeavyStorm 4y ago
  That's not a strategy to damage Linux users at all, it's just that main focus for apps is windows, then probably apple, then Linux. Also, MS devs are much more versed in windows.
- dathinab 4y ago
  Their native linux client is an outdated version of their web client using a outdated version of electron (I think it was electron), i.e. it's not native do not use it, use the browser.
anaganisk 4y ago
WSL is a literal VM now, that runs based on Hyper-V afaik, if Vscode degrades on Linux, I'm just not sure how it won't affect WSL too. Whatever happened to using vim,emacs, intelliJ, or tons of other Vscode forks. Vscode is not the baited hook, it's the exclusive integrations (extensions) like remote containers, remote containers etc that are nice to have features not workflow breaking stuff.
- eptcyka 4y ago
  VSCode runs well on host and just uses SSH to have a remote Dev env in the Linux VM. At this point, a MS advocate might argue that we don't even need vscode to run on Linux at all. I think their next push won't be against Foss people, but to get people on the cloud so they get a recurring revenue stream and their customers are hooked deeper still.
  - anaganisk 4y ago

anaganisk 4y ago

Ummm, Github runs on Git. So any feature supported by git will work work with any client other than the official windows client. Vscode is a text editor/IDE, it has bajillion alternatives, again unless MS doesn't allow code not written in Vscode to GitHub, which is a suicide anyway. There is Bitbucket or Gitlab to fork to. WSL, is awesome, because Linux is not game friendly, yeah yeah proton blah blah. I own a steam deck I know how it works and for a casual user Linux gaming just isn't there unless you want to tinker a lot. Then there are products like Photoshop replacements for which Linux is sub par, no GIMP is not alternative, it's entirely different. But nothing is stopping other users to switch to Linux unless edge/windows 11 blackholes insert_your_favorite_linux.com. WSL just clicked for a reason. MS as a company will fight for market share, no company after a certain size is moral, it's "free market" as US defines it. Change laws not companies. Regulate not ask nice. Feels like EU knows this and at least tries to twist the arms of companies where as in US it's seen as infringement of freedom. Ms gobbling up dev community is fear mongering towards the wrong entity.

makeitdouble 4y ago

I think this is down to the usual issue: what are you willing to give up in exchange for linux ? A decade ago you'd need to give up high DPI screens and capable laptops for linux. Today it's either the mac ecosystem with the iOS dev tools, or the Windows compatible newer form factors and/or the games/VR ecosystem. Apple will do what helps Apple, and Microsoft will do what serves Microsoft. Does a pure linux experience effectively serve you in your day to day work ? If yes, lucky you, it's still "no" fo many of us.