4 ms·

> old corporate software house who only manages to keep users through dark patterns and anti-competitive behaviour because they have given up on making products

> old corporate software house who only manages to keep users through dark patterns and anti-competitive behaviour because they have given up on making products which people enjoy to use? I feel like you lost the plot here. Microsoft fiddling with browser settings is nothing compared to something like Apple forcing a walled garden App Store, to create a fully captured market they can brutally take advantage of. Even today, Apple has banned all browser competition on iOS, and only Safari is allowed to run. All competitors must just re-skin Safari to obey the monopolistic demands of Apple. Imagine if Microsoft banned all browsers except Edge! It would be an outrage! But we all accept that Apple does that and has for 10+ years. Perhaps we are all so used to the daily monopolistic and anti-competitive behavior of Apple that we do not care any more. But Microsoft, to me, barely has a drop of the anti-competitive evil of its competitors. Apple mints hundreds of billions by banning competitors, locking them out and charging 30% rent on their monopoly. Microsoft... just wants their re-skinned Google Browser to not die.

vetinari 3y ago
> Imagine if Microsoft banned all browsers except Edge! It would be an outrage! But we all accept that Apple does that and has for 10+ years. They tried; with different means, but they expected the same result. That's what the antitrust case was about. > Perhaps we are all so used to the daily monopolistic and anti-competitive behavior of Apple that we do not care any more. While I have the same opinion as you wrt Apple behaviour, there is a difference: Apple doesn't have the market position like Microsoft did. You can function perfectly fine in society without any Apple product. That was not the case with Microsoft, they did everything they could so you had to use Microsoft system. Communicating with your bank or with government or public offices? Microsoft products were required. Apple has not such grip on the market and that makes the difference.
faeriechangling 3y ago
One could argue that offering a walled garden from the outset is more honest than the Microsoft strategy of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish and ultimately the latter creates more of a monopolistic threat in practice since walled gardens almost definitionally can't capture most of the market.

vetinari 3y ago

> Imagine if Microsoft banned all browsers except Edge! It would be an outrage! But we all accept that Apple does that and has for 10+ years. They tried; with different means, but they expected the same result. That's what the antitrust case was about. > Perhaps we are all so used to the daily monopolistic and anti-competitive behavior of Apple that we do not care any more. While I have the same opinion as you wrt Apple behaviour, there is a difference: Apple doesn't have the market position like Microsoft did. You can function perfectly fine in society without any Apple product. That was not the case with Microsoft, they did everything they could so you had to use Microsoft system. Communicating with your bank or with government or public offices? Microsoft products were required. Apple has not such grip on the market and that makes the difference.

faeriechangling 3y ago

One could argue that offering a walled garden from the outset is more honest than the Microsoft strategy of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish and ultimately the latter creates more of a monopolistic threat in practice since walled gardens almost definitionally can't capture most of the market.